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MatthewScheiper
06-18-2011, 06:13 AM
Looking to rebuild the diesel in my 1950 Cat D2 (Has a little oil blow by out of stack). Was just wondering who is a good supplier for engine kits? Thanks for the help!

drujinin
06-18-2011, 06:23 AM
There is no "rebuild kit" for a D2. If it is "blowing by" out the exhaust, then take the valve cover off and adjust the valves to the proper spec. Change the filter and oil. Actually if you have never done it, then change all the vital fluids and filters besidess lubricating and adjusting everything.
Then take it out somewhere, hook a set of plows on it or disk, work it up to operating temperature and keep it loaded for a few hours. I suspect that slobbering out the exhaust will go away.
You didn't mention excessive blowby out the crankcase breather?

MatthewScheiper
06-18-2011, 07:13 PM
drujinin, thanks for the reply! Didn't think about adjusting the valves. I think someone said always start simple first. :) Cat has good power, so I think compression is good. Will definitely change all fluids (started with pony oil and working my way through including oil in gear cases). Doesn't seem to be blowing any oil from crank breather (now that I got it unclogged!) Thanks!

drujinin
06-18-2011, 08:18 PM
Where are you located? Usually idling them cold is what causes them to slobber. There is a wealth of info on D2' that can be found byusing the Search feature.

4x6zh itzik
06-19-2011, 12:34 AM
Have an explicit procedure of how to prevent engine oil consumption
One of the tricks (the CAT)
Is to dismantle the air filter and engine to inhale a special material
We learned from experience the intake manifold to disconnect
Working engine at idle (hot)
Then inject detergent (washing machine powder) into each cylinder
Each piston handful of small hand (2 tablespoons soup)
And everything with the motor running
You can repeat this process a maximum of 3 times (by a margin of at least 10 engine hours)

Waiting for results

Itzik

drujinin
06-19-2011, 06:12 AM
Itzik,
Can you clarify the explanation as to why?
Is this a new, not usually mentioned technique to reduce slobbering/oil consumption?
OR
Is it the old, old "Bon-Ami" trick of scuffing the glaze on the cylinder walls to reduce slobbering/oil consumption?
I would not usually mention this technique to a new member because he doesn't state that he has severe slobbering and oil blowing.
Still I think I would make sure the Thermostat is working to keep engine temperature up and changing crankcase oil, then loading the tractor to work it long and hard.
Jeff

MatthewScheiper
06-19-2011, 07:43 AM
Located in Portland, OR. Have a lot of info around. Just started asking here first. Will definitely adjust valves and see what happens. Will keep you posted. Thanks!

4x6zh itzik
06-19-2011, 10:25 AM
Adjust valves
Replace engine oil filters
Check Thermostat
Of course it must be done

When I take the age of the tractor
The model tractor
And a familiar complaint
I immediately think of the glassy Tzlindr

Recently I met a mechanical engineer
Many years was associated with Caterpillar
And he repeatedly mentioned how they would fix the engines was not a successful Engine Repair:thumb:

itzik

Old Magnet
06-19-2011, 11:25 AM
Does sound like the old "Bon Ami" procedure to me.

This has its place but is not a cure all and was not recommended for later engines with more advanced rings and sealing surfaces. I hesitate to even post it as it is sure to be abused as a fix for tired out engines.

dewets
06-19-2011, 12:02 PM
AFAIK the BonAmi "fix" was only recommended be CAT for a few years, and IIRC it was only meant for the bigger (D7 and up) range of tractors.
I'd stay away from that "cure"

I would also make that D2 work for it's money!

If you're in a cool season, I'd wack a sack over the radiator, and use an offset disc or a 4 furrow plough to put a demand out for those 32 horses that's supposed to be "lurking under the hood" there. Do this for at least 4 - 6 hours.
We had one and after a session in front of an offset disc with a sack over the radiator (really get the temperature up), slobber was gone.
Just be warned: Get yourself a hat and some really OLD clothes, else you'd be covered in more than just a few black oily spots coughed by that working Cat!

MatthewScheiper
06-19-2011, 06:30 PM
Thanks to all for the replies! When I get off the road, I will definitely adjust the valves and work the old girl. Will let you know how I make out. Thanks!

drujinin
06-19-2011, 06:57 PM
I realized after I had most of it typed that itzik was referring to "Bon-Ami". I'm glad he realizes it wasn't a successfull treatment. I run mine quite a bit with a canvas tarp on the front to keep the engine warm.
Jeff

CrawlerFan
06-19-2011, 11:28 PM
Hey Matthew, I live in Lake Oswego, and work for a farm in Wilsonville and Yamhill. I just bought my first D2 about a week ago, and hope to drag it home sometime this next week! I'm looking forward to going through my machine, like you are, fairly soon. Derek.

4x6zh itzik
06-20-2011, 05:42 AM
Bon-Ami

Can we please get an explanation of the origin of the name
Or is it a meaningless word
And acceptable to use a general keyword

Procedure Manufacturer Bon-Ami
Was very popular in the 60th and successfully

Today we are looking for a field that could be plowed

itzik

Julian
06-20-2011, 06:15 AM
Bon-Ami

Can we please get an explanation of the origin of the name
Or is it a meaningless word
And acceptable to use a general keyword
itzik

Bon Ami, French for "Good Friend", is a powdered household cleaner sold by the Faultless Starch/Bon Ami Company of Kansas City, Missouri, USA. .

I've heard of 'Vim' being used in the UK, it's an old fashioned powder for cleaning cooker hobs etc - essentially an abrasive!

Regards Julian

4x6zh itzik
06-20-2011, 07:01 AM
tnx :thumb:

itzik

MatthewScheiper
06-20-2011, 06:24 PM
Derek, Glad to hear! Good luck with your D2! Got mine home, ran pretty good, and went to move her into the shop to change the oil and the water pump quit. Had a guy outside Estacada rebuild it for me. Did a great job! Can't wait to get home and see if I can get her to quit slobbering.

ccjersey
06-20-2011, 08:40 PM
I think BonAmi is basically powdered limestone and some detergent/washing soda etc. Limestone is CaCO(3) or calcium carbonate.

Like Julian said, its a mild abrasive, at least compared to silicates (sand)!

Julian
06-21-2011, 02:24 AM
I think BonAmi is basically powdered limestone and some detergent/washing soda etc. Limestone is CaCO(3) or calcium carbonate.

Like Julian said, its a mild abrasive, at least compared to silicates (sand)!

In the UK the old cleaning powder 'Vim' had powdered pumice in it I think.

Anyway, the idea of sticking the stuff into an engine intake fills me with horror - some is surely going to get into the oil and be fine enough to get past the filter and start eating the bearings? I don't think I could bring myself to perform such an act:jaw:

Julian.

mcclaar
06-21-2011, 07:24 AM
I would work it hard for awhile like others have said. My D2 slobbered alot when I first got it. I hooked it to a disk and pulled it for a while and it seems to have quit.

stevens205
02-26-2012, 11:58 PM
I have a D2 5j that I'm not sure if it needs a rebuild or not its getting blow by out the crankcase breather sometimes not much if its not working hard if its working hard you can see it does not always do it bad though. Have a couple other probs to. If its at anything other than wide open it searches for a idel. Is that bad nozels? Or should. I be looking at something eles? My final question when I have the poney engine running to warm up it has a hard time running then when I engage the main engine with the compertion release on it never seems to get up and going then when I disingage it the poney will only turn the main for about 5 sec before it almost dies so I have to use starting fluid to start the main because the poney wont turn it over long enoph for me to get it started on its own. So is it havin a carb prob or is that a govner prob or something eles? I have no books any help would be so great thanks.

drujinin
02-27-2012, 05:54 AM
Move the lever to "START" position. Then start pony, engage to main engine. Then run it and time how long it runs. The water pump is turning to cool the Pony and warm the main. How long does it run? Does the pony get real hot? Sounds like the water passage at the bottom of the pony/main connection is plugged with crud making the pony run hot. Use the Search function to find more info on D2 troubleshooting. There was a thread not to long ago on cleaning that passageway on a D2 or D4. Let us know how its going.
Also check the pony tank and fuel line, could be starving for fuel which is also why it runs a real short period.
I go for cooling the pony first, then troubleshoot fuel delivery, then work into the carb if necessary.
Jeff

7upuller
02-27-2012, 10:33 AM
On the right side of the pony, on top, you will find the govenor run off a belt. There is linkage that runs the throttle body of the carb connected to it. Make sure all the linkage is moving freely and that the govenor is working correct. To me it sounds that torque of turning the main over is killing the pony as the linkage from the governor is not working and the pony dies, instead of throttle up.

Also make sure that you run the main in the start position(compression open) to warm up the main a minute or two, before flipping the compression to the run position(compression closed). You will find that once you warm the main up a minute or so, then to run position, the main will turn over easier as it warms up a bit. A cold main and trying to start with the compression closed, is too much on the pony and if the linkage to the throttle body from governor is froze it won't run right. Once you flip the compression to run, continue to run it for a minute or two in the closed compression position (run) to build heat in the main before opening the throttle.

Are you sure that the pony is running on both cylinders? A pony running on one cylinder will give the same sysmptoms you are discribing. When you strat the pony and let it run, take a temp gun (your hand will work too) and check both heads from the pony and see if both are hot. -glen

Ray54
02-27-2012, 11:21 AM
It's one of the little things but make sure the governor linkage moves freely.Have had the shaft coming out of the governor get rusty witch would bog the the pony down.
Ray

stevens205
02-27-2012, 08:22 PM
Hey thanks guys got it all solved now and man I cant tell you guys how nice it is to have a poney that works!!! :) The poney was only running on one cylinder and the gov belt was way loose witch caused it to cut into one of the sparkplug wires and was shorting it out befor it coule get to the plug got it all fixed and man that poney runs good now. Im new to the D2s so still learning alot. Though was the weriedest thing after fixin the poney the main would not start I spent 4 hours trying everything and it would not start. I thought the rack was maybe not opening checked it seemed to be working fine. Then I checked to see if the main fuel line was pluged it wasnt. I checked the filters they were clean. I opened the fuel lines that go to the nozles they seemed to be spraying good. I could not figure out was wrong still didnt I started the poney and used it to limp the cat to her spot at the house figured I would try one more time gave it a shot of starting fluid took it a sec then it started up( I had tryed starting fluid through out the day just so you guys know) Any ideas? Is it maybe not makein fuel pressuer or something? When im trying to start it the gauge dose not show anything weather its in start or run does not show pressure till its running is that normal? Thanks again guys for the help on the poney so nice to have that thing running right.

Mike Walsh
02-27-2012, 11:16 PM
You should have fuel and oil pressure when the main engine is being turned and warmed by the pony. Check for fuel and oil pressure before you start the main engine.

7upuller
02-28-2012, 01:05 AM
Hey 205,

When I get a new Cat, you know, one's that 60-70 years old, I start at the beginning with the fuel system and work my way up. So first I blow out the fuel line and make sure there is no crap in it. You can pull the fuel line off before it goes into the transfer pump and make sure it is running a full hose with a good flow rate. 2.) Where the line goes into the tranfer pump, pull the cover off and make sure there is no crap in the spring and little check valve piece at end of spring. Once all clean, pull on the spring and stretch it out some and replace. I skip the transfer pump while trying to bleed the system , unless the Cat will not build hardly any pressure, then this is where to look. 3.) Then I replace fuel filters and make sure tower is cleaned out good. When you put new filters in, make sure you fill tower with fuel before closing up, it saves time. Make sure when you put gaskets on the top of the tower, especially if you make gaskets yourself, that the small hole about a 1/4" in gasket is matched with hole on tower. If gasket is put on wrong and you cover the hole accidently, you'll be scratching your head a long time to figure out what happened. There are two bleed screws on top of tower, if I remember right, bleed both of them when pony is started and main is turning over. 4.) If cat has been sitting a long time, or you haven't owned the cat long, pull the cover of the injector pump and make sure each one of the four pumps are working correct. Work the throttle back and forth a few times and make sure everything in there is moving freely. After the have sat a long time they stick. Loose juice them if you want. If all working good, put cover on and put oil in pump. 5.) Behind pump where the injector lines come out of top of pump, are four bleeders screws, one for each pump. This is where a lot of people mess up. They think that if they are getting fuel leaking out of injector line when you crack them, that there are getting fuel to engine, but not true, not enough. So you must bleed each one. If it's been sitting a long time, open them all the way up. I have had a D6 once that was just kind of dribbling out, when I opened them. I opened more and still wasn't happy. I took a piece of wire and reamed the hole a couple of times, Bam, what a difference, fuel was gushing out know. You'll know when they work right , I mean they really pour out a lot of diesel, a lot. 6.) When all bleeders got you soaked, then crack the lines on top of pump. Then work your way up to the injector and crack it there. At this point it should be bled and have the air out.

So, check and make sure you are not missing the bleeders on the back side of the injection pump. This bleed screw takes a special wrench. You can buy a 1/4" socket that can fit, it's kind of oval shaped. Cat has a long handled wrench that fits. Do a search and a lot of guys make them out of sockets. I personaly like the 1/4" socket with extensions and ratchet.-glen

ol Grump
02-28-2012, 08:35 AM
As has been said before, check the bypass valve for crud if it's not showing fuel pressure at cranking speed. Weak/broken spring can cause that as well. Cat still has 'em and rather than mess with a worn poppet or spring I'd rather get new ones, cost a couple of years ago was around $20 as I recall.

Low or no fuel pressure at cranking speed is gonna make starting the diesel hard. .plus it's gonna be down on power when you do get it running if the problem is in the bypass valve.

stevens205
02-28-2012, 11:26 AM
Thanks for info guys Ill check all of that today let you know what I find but just so im clear I should take the cover off of the transfer pump were the main fuel line is comeing in and check the spring and check valve? Now that it is running again should I check the injector bleeders and see if its makin pressure or leave it alone till it does it again? were is the check valve and spring at? It was doing exactly what you said 7upuller it was dripping fuel out I didnt know about the bleeders on the back of the injection pump I was just opeing the lines trying to see if they were squirrting all I seen was dripping. thanks guys! :D

stevens205
02-28-2012, 02:39 PM
I found the valve and spring they had crud on them so I cleaned it all blew it out with compressed air put it all back togeather same thing no fuel pressure when the poney is turing it over gave it a shot of starting fluid got it started and once its running full fuel pressure and it still is searching for an idel.

Robbie

7upuller
02-28-2012, 05:33 PM
205,

It sounds like it will run at high idle but if you try low idle it wants to die. It still sounds like air in the system to me. I could be wrong, but I would bleed air out of the bleeders on the backside of the injection pump.-glen

7upuller
02-28-2012, 06:59 PM
205,

When bleeding the system you can not take short cuts, if you do it will still have trapped air and it won't run right. Bleed the tower then bleed the top of the pumps on the backside of the pump.

stevens205
02-28-2012, 09:10 PM
I did all of that I first checked to see if the main fuel line was getting a full hose so I took it off put a bucket in front of it and opened the valve had plenty of fuel. Then I went on to the next step and took the cover off of the transfer pump to check the spring and check valve. They had some crud on them so used compressed air and blew them out wiped everything down and put it back togeather and hooked up the main fuel line again and turned the valve from the tank back on. Took the top of the filter houseing off checked the gasket to make sure it was not blocking the hole and was on the right way. Took the filters out to see if they were dirty they looked clean. made sure that the filter houseing was full of fuel then put it all back togeather. After doing that I then started the poney and egaged the main engine to see if it was getting fuel pressure still was not. So I used two cresent wreches and opened the bleeders one by one on the back of the injection pump. Every one I opened was spraying so I closed them one by one and then moved to the fuel lines comeing off of the top of the injection pump. they were spraying so one by one I closed them and finally I moved to the top of the fuel lines were they come to the nozels and removed them one by one if I just crack them they look like they are just dripping but if I take the line off of the nozel and watch it they are spraying streams of fuel. So I checked every one of them and hooked them back up one by one. After everything was tightend I set the compression release to run and still no fuel pressure opened the rack to half throttle ever onec and awhille id get a pop out of it. tryed wide open low idle same thing a couple of times it would pop over a few times but wouldnt get going just white smoke comein out the exhaughst. Gave it a shot of starting fluid and it wanted to start it would start popin and acted like it was running on two three cylinders for a few then quit. so then set the compression release to start let the poney crank it for about 5 sec gave it a shot of starting fluid and put it to run at half throttle acted like it was running on two or three cylinders again then it got up and running took it like 6 to 7 sec to get fuel pressure up but then got full pressure. ran it for about an hour shut it off and tryed to start it again same thing no pressure when rolling over with poney just white smoke and pops once and awhille. I dont know if you can post videos on here but I filmed it running on my cell phone so if there is a way of posting that so you guys can hear it maybe that will help. Thanks Robbie

7upuller
02-29-2012, 12:16 AM
205,

You did a good job informing me of your procedure, thank you. You did all the correct steps, but did not mention the bleeder screws. Where the lines come out of the top of the injection pump, there is a 2-3" space between the pump and the block. You have to put your eyes directly over the pump and look down about 4-5" below the pump, down between the block and the pump. You will see the 4 bleeder valves sticking straight up and when you twist them, fuel will spit out 90 degrees horizontally and spray back towards the block. These bleeders prime the individual pumps, and if they don't get primed, you can't start the cat correctly. This step a lot of people miss and stops them from firing up the diesel.

Also, go back and pull the spring and check valve housing one more time. As Ol grump says the spring is important and you should replace it. It helps mantain the pressure of the transfer pump. I have cleaned them, stretched the spring some, and assembled them. I blew it once and did not get the valve set in correctly with the rubber seat, the spring jarred it sideways and I put it back together incorrectly. I could not build fuel pressure as this valve will let pressure back to the tank. So, I learned the hard way. Checking this one more time doesn't cost much money or too much time and is cheaper than replacing your tranfer pump, if not needed. Not being able to build fuel pressure when the pony is running is a bad sign. The transfer pump has to get you close to the green if not in it, to start it correctly. If double checking the rubber seaat and putting in a new or stretched out spring doesn't do the trick, then rebuild the transfer pump is the next step. John Matta has rebuilt them for me. The last one I did myself, and was successful. Dana @ Florin tractor got me the parts to do it.

So, I suggest, 1) check the spring and check valve again 2) bleed tower again 3) bleed pumps with bleeder screws, 4) crack injector lines again. If this doen't get you started with good fuel pressure, then replace of rebuild the transfer pump. There is a good thread going on right now "D7-E injection pump", there is good points in it, read it too.-glen

Mike Walsh
02-29-2012, 10:32 AM
Here's my 2 cents. After following Glenn's advice, if you still don't have fuel pressure when turning the main with the pony, rebuild your check valve with CAT parts. If you have to rebuild your transfer pump, you're going to want a new check valve anyway. If the new check valve doesn't solve your problem, pull your fuel line and hook up an electric fuel pump; you can pump out of a jerry can. If your transfer pump is bad, the main will start on the fuel pressure delivered by the electric pump. If the main will not start, its not your transfer pump.

Old Magnet
02-29-2012, 11:04 AM
WOW!!! This one IS getting long winded....
I'll add some.....first, get a real gauge with numbers, one that is known to work, with 15 psi (midscale) reading. Anything less than 5 psi when cranking is going to give you starting problems.

On the relief valve......I can remember SJ lecturing us about "draw filing" the pump body.....involves checking the valve seat area to make sure it is flat as they tend to erode from years of service and the sealing is lost.

Mike Walsh
02-29-2012, 11:19 AM
I sure miss SJ. I never got that lecture but I got a lot of other great advice. Have to go see if I can find that one in the "archives". I feel cheated. :Cry:

Edit: Found it.

7upuller
02-29-2012, 11:24 AM
Is SJ still around?

Mike Walsh
02-29-2012, 11:39 AM
Is SJ still around?

Yes. ACMOC upgraded the software a couple of years ago and SJ's computer wouldn't work with the new format. I thought this would be a great time to fix some of the things that are wrong with ACMOC and suggested the Club find out what the Gang needed to help them deliver their advice to the rest of us. An expense that would barely be noticed but which would enhance the BB exponentially. Unfortunately that idea morphed into the erroneous idea that SJ couldn't afford a new computer and I victimized him by shooting my mouth off trying to fix a problem that very few others seem to care about. File that one under "No Good Deed Goes Unpunished, Idiot." He may have had other issues with ACMOC, or at least I tell myself that to forget what I did.


The advice on this Forum is second to none. That becomes painfully obvious when visiting other forums catering to other color tractors. Sometimes I think folks log on here for a quick answer, one that's been answered a hundred times before, and expect drive thru service; a total lack of comprehension of the resource or lack of appreciation thereof. There was a post earlier thanking the Gang for their help. Its nice to see someone say that once in a while.

Old Magnet
02-29-2012, 11:44 AM
I honestly don't know....it's been a long time since I've heard anything from or about him. Sure left a big void, was a shame the way he was "dusted off".

stevens205
03-01-2012, 12:31 PM
Hey thanks guys for all the help I cant thank you enoph. 7upuller I did what you said and used the bleeder screws on the top of the injection pump behind the fuel lines and between the engine block and the injection pump. No air came out just fuel. So I did what someone eles sugested and put a gauge that will give numbers instead of the one the cat has on it. If the cat is cold and has not been started at all I can get 3 and a half 4 pounds of fuel pressure still wont start but trys. After messing with it for awhille and a shot of starting fluid I can get it going and at an idle half throttle its around 5 and a half to 7 pounds of pressure. At wide open it is about 9 and a half but never can get it to hit 10 pounds of pressure. I ran the cat around for a bit plowed some snow shut it off and tryed to start it again and the gauge barley moves when the poney is cranking it does not even look like a pound. So Im guessing the transfer pump needs to be rebuilt? Casue when the fuel is cold it will pump better but when its warm will not at all. Can I just sand the flat plates between the front and back of the gears on the pump or is it way more involved than that? Thanks again guys for all the help I know we gotta be getting close to solvein this and cant thank you guys enoph been a real fun time :) I still have another d2 3j thats next on the list. Thanks a ton Robbie

Old Magnet
03-01-2012, 01:30 PM
Yes, you can do the "poor man's surface grinder" on the worn flat surfaces by hand lapping on a sheet of crocus cloth laid on a piece of glass or similar. It's slow going and use a figure 8 lapping pattern.
Clean up the relief valve seat also. Might recover enough to get you by for a while.

Reassemble with a lite coat of #3 Permatex.

D4 Larry
03-01-2012, 11:47 PM
Ran into the same thing this winter on my D47u. Transfer pump wouldn't put out enough pressure to move the fuel pressure guage. The stud that holds the idler gear in the pump was worn enough that fuel pressure was getting past the gears (sloppy fit). The bottom plate was worn below the idler gear also. No iundication that the shaft seals were leaking, as there wasn't any sign of fuel going to the crankcase from there. That stud is a light press fit, but you may have to weld a nut or something on it to get a grip to pull it. Beware of splatter. LE

edb
03-02-2012, 03:03 AM
Hi Team,
at The Dealer to remove the idler gear shaft I used to drill and tap a 1/4" NPT course thread into the center of the shaft and attach a slide hammer puller to extract them.
The shaft seemed to be cast iron so was soft and easy to work with.
Cheers,
Eddie B.

8C 361
03-02-2012, 11:37 AM
Yes, you can do the "poor man's surface grinder" on the worn flat surfaces by hand lapping on a sheet of crocus cloth laid on a piece of glass or similar. It's slow going and use a figure 8 lapping pattern.
Clean up the relief valve seat also. Might recover enough to get you by for a while.

Reassemble with a lite coat of #3 Permatex.

Here is a post from our beloved old member SJ who we have not heard from in a while on the same subject:

"Bill, are you getting fuel pressure on the gauge? If not the remove the block on the transfer pump that the fuel line from the tank goes into but watch there is a spring and check valve inside that will fly out. Check and see if the valve has a lot of crud on the seat and also the seat will get a round worn spot in the transfer pump housing so it can be draw filed flat. If the valve (plunger) shows wear then go to Cleveland Bros. down there and get a new one for a couple bucks. Also I used to stretch the spring some before I put it back together if it was an old one. You could get a new spring too and put in.If it doesn,t want to start right off give it a couple of snuffs of starting fluid in the air cleaner and see if it fires off then. Let us know how you make out."


I'd go after that plunger seat with a drawfile, or better yet the glass and crocus.

gemdozer
03-02-2012, 12:03 PM
I should have 4 transfert fuel pumps on racking for 7u

stevens205
03-03-2012, 10:40 PM
Thanks guys I'll try all that let you know what I come up with. I got a quote for a transfer pump they want $1000 :( hope I can make it work!

7upuller
03-03-2012, 10:44 PM
John Matta rebuilt mine. His number is in the parts sticky. I think it was $350 or $400-glen

STEPHEN
03-03-2012, 10:58 PM
On a past post I detailed some of the procedure I used to rebuild my D-50 pump. The D4 pump is not much different. If I can help you out, let me know

stevens205
03-05-2012, 06:27 PM
Just ordered all the parts to rebuild this trasfer pump found a couple bad seals in it once I took it off and all apart ordered all new parts. cost me $25 bucks so going up to caterpillar tomarrow moring to get them and put it all back togeather. Im praying this fixes this old girl. I ment to ask does anyone know the year the one Im working on right now is a 5j9689 and my other one is a 3j3420 sp thanks guys

Mike Walsh
03-05-2012, 07:59 PM
A few tips when rebuilding your pump. The shaft is extremely soft. If you need to remove the gear, use a puller. Eddie, SJ and OM helped me rebuild mine. The seal will tear out when you slip it over the shaft if you don't tape the sharp shoulder on the shaft. The seal will slip over the tape. The seals need to be tamped to seal them to the shaft and prevent fuel from bypassing. Eddie or SJ posted a drawing of the tamping tool. The book doesn't mention tamping or tear out when installing the seal over the shaft. If the Gang hadn't enlightened me to these things, I'd still be fighting my pump rebuild.

Cysco
03-05-2012, 08:11 PM
A few tips when rebuilding your pump. The shaft is extremely soft. If you need to remove the gear, use a puller. Eddie, SJ and OM helped me rebuild mine. The seal will tear out when you slip it over the shaft if you don't tape the sharp shoulder on the shaft. The seal will slip over the tape. The seals need to be tamped to seal them to the shaft and prevent fuel from bypassing. Eddie or SJ posted a drawing of the tamping tool. The book doesn't mention tamping or tear out when installing the seal over the shaft. If the Gang hadn't enlightened me to these things, I'd still be fighting my pump rebuild.

Mike....I had the same guidence from those guys and my transfer pump works perfectly now. My "hats off" to the guys here on this forum for their willingness to help.
Thanks...........Bill

edb
03-06-2012, 01:56 AM
Hi Team,
search should find the previous posts on transfer pump tamping tools for an explaination of the proceedure.
Grab the scans while they are up.
Cheers,
Eddie B.

stevens205
03-10-2012, 10:46 PM
Hey guys I rebuilt it put it back on fired up the poney little better fuel pressure when cranking about 4psi but still will not start on its own. Once I get it going thought way way better fuel pressure at idel about 9 at wide open its 15. Not sure what eles I can do now. My poney brake is not working that great is there a way. Of adjusting it? Thanks for the help guys about outages ideas

7upuller
03-10-2012, 10:51 PM
Drain the oil out of the pony clutch and fill with ATF, it will help.-glen

stevens205
03-19-2012, 04:58 PM
Thanks for all the help guys it is starting much easier now. Makes it so nice when all you have to do is let the pony warm it up then just take the compression release off and give her a shot of starting fluid and starts up so you can get to work :). Does anyone have all the books for one of these D2s I could buy off them. all I have is the book that tells you how to disassemble it. I need the books that show you all the tuning and setting for the main engine and pony. think I need to rebuild my main engine because its getting blow by out the crankcase breather and just seems to me it does not have the power it should so gonna try and see what parts I can get if any to rebuild it. figured I would try and find gaskets and rings. Ill check the main and rod bearings as iv herd they are almost impossible to find! Thanks again guys for all the help it is so nice to be able to jump on here and get help when you get stuck hopefully I can be of help to some of you!! I put a couple pics up of one of my D2s on my profile if anyone wants to check it out :)

Mike Meyer
03-19-2012, 06:39 PM
Thanks for all the help guys it is starting much easier now. Makes it so nice when all you have to do is let the pony warm it up then just take the compression release off and give her a shot of starting fluid and starts up so you can get to work :). Does anyone have all the books for one of these D2s I could buy off them. all I have is the book that tells you how to disassemble it. I need the books that show you all the tuning and setting for the main engine and pony. think I need to rebuild my main engine because its getting blow by out the crankcase breather and just seems to me it does not have the power it should so gonna try and see what parts I can get if any to rebuild it. figured I would try and find gaskets and rings. Ill check the main and rod bearings as iv herd they are almost impossible to find! Thanks again guys for all the help it is so nice to be able to jump on here and get help when you get stuck hopefully I can be of help to some of you!! I put a couple pics up of one of my D2s on my profile if anyone wants to check it out :)

My advice is find a old retired Cat Mechanic in your area and pay him to come and look at that tractor before you even think about taking that motor apart, because $50 or $100 in cash now is a lot cheaper for setting the valves right, or checking injector pump performance, than $5,000 over 3 or 4 years spent rebuilding a D2 motor than only needed a valve grind. These old Cat motors are amazingly tolerant and over engineered, and I'd love a beer for every time someone here on ACMOC completely rebuilt a poorly performing pilot motor only to find later it was a bad condensor in the magneto, or dirty carburetor passages!:smokin:

Most times the old girls just need a good flogging to clear off glazing in the bores, or stuck rings, most my old diesel Cats I've dragged home never had thermostats in them, so you know the motors never ran at the right temperatures and for diesels that is critical. A $25 thermostat is a lot cheaper than crankshaft grinding and waiting 2 years to find new undersize bearings or new pistons, and then another 3 years to get permission from your wife or Mom, or Bank Manager to buy them! Get that machine fully serviced by a expert and all adjustments back to original spec before doing anything else, because you just rebuilt the fuel pump and it sounds like it didn't change the fuel tower pressure much, sure would be a shame to rebuild a main motor only to find dirty injectors or glazed bores were the problem.
Good luck, you are not alone, keep asking questions and you will get good sound advice, I'm rebuilding a D2 4U, 2 Ton, D4 7J, RD6 and 22 right now, and soon to attack a D2 5U in a months time, so I'm speaking from personal experience, and you can't beat that.

Run Slowly, is what you need to do with your old D2's, because if we can save you $5,000 now, then that's 5 grand you can spend saving a few more Cats, and that's why I'm here talking to you now!:thumb:
Kind regards
Mike

Neil
03-19-2012, 09:12 PM
Steve,
what parts did you end up replacing? I have 3J4086 and I'm just starting to get into it (pulling the pony off after spending an hour removing the dash!)
Cheers,
Neil

stevens205
03-24-2012, 10:31 PM
sorry guys had alot going on the last couple of days. I put all new seals in it put a new check valve and spring in it and all new gaskets. It had some super bad blow by last friday when I was using it and seems like it has no power now I think the engine is just about done :(

stevens205
03-27-2012, 08:12 PM
What is flogging and how would I go about doing that to my engine to see if I can get the glazing off the cylinder walls and the piston rings unstuck

drujinin
03-28-2012, 06:18 AM
For "working the poor beast till it can't take it any more!"
Or you can't take it anymore! :lol:
A person could change the oil to a high detergent, put in a good known thermostat, then hook it to a big disk plow and work the tractor into submission(meaning run it HOT and hard for a LONG period of time!)
I did this on a John Deere B that had sat a long time and it worked on that.
I would try everything to loosen it up before I thought about rebuilding it as some parts are hard to obtain and the rest are expensive!
A cheaper option is to buy a better one and use your tired one for parts than to drop $4K or $5k into a machine that you will never seen return on your investment!
Jeff