View Full Version : Year? How strong?
12-10-2006, 10:31 AM
I just saw a D6C series G sn 10K849 Cat listed on a auction site. I am wondering what year it would be and how strong compared to a 1959 D7 17a
not turbo charged?
D.K. in S.K.
The 10K went in production in 1967 so that one could have been made that year yet or the next.Probably at the end of a days work the D6C with power shift trans. would do as much or more than the larger D7 but the D6 would be so much faster.
12-11-2006, 02:02 PM
Thanks for the reply SJ. So as I understand it on a side by side push the D7 17a would out push the D6C but the D6C being faster would make more passes per hour. Thus move as much or more in the same number of hours.
Since most of the work I would be doing is done on frozen ground which one would have more traction. This is for my winter pleasure, clearing bush. I prefer doing it in winter since that way I do not even disturb the grass and move no topsoil.
D.K. in S.K.
12-11-2006, 02:27 PM
Manx Cat, my book says the D6 10K849 was built in 1969 and the engine was rated at 140 FHP and the D7 17A was also rated at 170 FWP. Hope this helps
12-11-2006, 06:11 PM
Flywheel HP of the N/A D7 17A (D7C) is 128 .. drawbar HP is 102.
There is a world of operating difference between the two tractors.
The D7 is a Direct Drive 1200 RPM lugger, that pulls back to 800RPM under maximum load .. and relies on the torque rise of that massive long stroke engine to achieve stump-pulling power at around 1MPH or less ..
The D6C is a 2000 RPM high speed diesel that relies on a torque converter to multiply its torque with minimal engine speed drop.
The D6C has 140 engine HP .. is faster and more responsive, more nimble, and heavier overall, than the D7.
There is no way to do an exact comparison between the two tractors .. but the D6C will do everything the D7 will do .. and do it faster .. is more operator-friendly .. and is more reliable in the long-term.
I think you need to compare apples to apples.
The D7 has the old lower speed engine with no turbo, with a direct drive transmission and either cable or the old slow hydr. set up the Cat used. Good old tractor but when you are pushing and hit a hard spot, you will need to shift or lose part of the load. The direct drive transmission is slow to shift and slow backing up. If its cable how are you going to put down pressure to get it in the ground. Would be a lot better if it had a turbo. But they are great to pull an old scraper.
The D6C will have a higher speed D333 engine. with a torque converter and power shift transmission. It will more than likely have hyr. on the blade. The a torque converter will stall and do as the name says torque you threw a hard spot, the motor will hardly lose any speed or power. If that fails with the power shift transmission you can shift on the go if you need. you can shift up as much as the engine/ torque converter will push. Backing up Throw it in third reverse and hang on. so much quicker than the old D7 17A it is not funny.
Parts are so much cheaper and more available for the D6C
I have owned both and the D6C will keep up and out do the D7 17a with no problem, even in hard frozen ground
To bad the D6C does not have a turbo, You can add one if you want to.
Sorry Oz Dozer did not see your post until I hit Submit reply.
I think I just repeated and added some to your post
12-11-2006, 07:06 PM
Thanks again for the good info. I very much appreciate all I can get since I am allmost deaf the only way I can really get info. is to read.
Yes I realize these are very different machines. I had a D7 17a with a hyd blade. I have never figured out why any one woud want one of those cable blades I never ran one but never saw a decent job done by one either. So that is my reason for using it as a comparison. Speed is not that important to me since I will only use my cat for my own use. I would expect to put about 200 hours on it over the next 3 winters and then just keep it as a hobby (toy ) and run it once in a while. Not make a business of it. I have probably 2000 hours cat running experience mostly clearing bush. I felt the D7 was the smallest cat suitable for the work I want to do. Thus wondered if the newer D6 would push as much.
D.K. in S.K.
12-11-2006, 08:51 PM
Well I would compare it like the diff. between driving grandpas 53 chev p/u to driving your wifes caddy.LOL Much better steering system,powershit,much less noise,decelerator for doing fine work and easing into load . unless you doing someting like ripping where you need a constant hard pull allday the 10K will do 3 times the work in a day as 17A may not have the HP but with its speed, user friendy controls and plain comfort you will get much more done and not be plumb wore out at end of day. But with all that it is much more complicated to work on and many more things to go wrong
12-11-2006, 09:12 PM
I am always interested in the 6C - 17A comparison.
The D7D is my dream tractor. I figure it is one that I may run into and possibly be able to afford someday. Sure a D6C will do the same work easier and faster but it all comes down to dollars and cents for me. A D6C in good working condition is going to cost about $25,000. A 17A in good shape can be had for a lot less. If that powershift transmission goes out it is going to cost $15,000 but even this is not bad if you are working in the real world where they use new Cats.
I want a direct drive tractor even if it is a D6C. I'll even take a cable blade. have some neighbors that bought a 17A for about $5000, they havn't invited me to see it yet. I am hoping to end up with it when they break it or can't start it.
Interesting about brushing when the ground is frozen, that sounds like an excellent method. I have brushing to do at both ranches but it dosn't freeze here. Here on the coast we have the coyote brush, if you don't get all the roots out it will come right back. I would use the old 7U with a brush rake and do it about this time of the year, after the first rains when the ground is soft.
At the ranch in the foothills we have a mountain lilac. I just met with the Rescource Conservation lady and we agreed late spring after the rains end would probably be the best. Last year a neighbor did a lot of clearing in the heat of summer. They had a High Track D6 (H?) with an air conditioned cab.
The lady said they don't recomend this because of fire danger. I don't want to work in the heat and if I get in there before it gets hot the dust won't be too bad. We have the D4 (HT4) loader up there.
12-11-2006, 10:20 PM
I do see the point of speed for business. I am more interested in a good job.The reason I want to do this myself is it will be done right. I can buy an older cat for less than it would cost to hire somebody to do it and when I am finished the cat will still be worth as much as I paid for it.
Yes I could buy a $100K cat and do all this work in no time and it would still be worth $90k but I have spent most of my life working with equipment that most people wouldn't touch because I couldn't afford better. That is why I could now buy a $100k cat if I chose to. Lots of the people who looked down on me from their fancy new equipment. Now have the banker knocking on the door.
As for the 53 pickup caddy comparison you are right. I have seen plenty of these fancy high tech stuff waiting for a tow truck while the 30 year old stuff breezes on by.
I can easily fix the old stuff but if I have to take it to the shop and pay labour
at what is charged now and to often it isn't fixed right any way as I have seen with my brand new tractor and other peoples disappointments with these guys that are supposed to know what they are doing. I am better of with the older machine.
You know like the rabbit and the turtle story!
I clear most of this bush (mainly aspen and willow) in winter mostly on pasture
then where the trees are live there is often rapid regrowth the next summer
but if I leave it one summer the regrowth is about 3 feet high but only about 1 inch thick or less. Then the next spring/ early summer just after it leafs out I mow it with a rotary mower close to the ground and that about kills it all of. When started doing this everybody told me it wouldn't work they were wrong. I've done over 100 acres and 5 years later there is probably not 3 trees per acre and they will likely die from being trampled.
D.K. in S.K.
12-12-2006, 12:07 AM
It has been interesting hearing you compare the two tractors...We have a later model 17A with power steering and turbo - dry paper air cleaner, an old oil field Cat, as it has an 8 ft Balderson blade and Hyster D7D winch...We bought the machine in 76, have been completely through the rest of the tractor, but haven't done anything to the winch except extend the headache to raise the derrick of big rigs, and replace the brake band lining twice.
We also have a D6D LGP with turbo...It is interesting that Cat had a time making up its mind to keep the turbo in the D6C...I think with the 10K series they had the 3306 engine, but also thought they had a turbo, so I must have dreamed up part of the specs...The D6 has a cab, heat and air, power steering and the proverbial brake at the end of the steering handle stroke...Its a real spoiler after running the D7 for 35 years...The 7 is more nimble, and easier to see the winch, than the 6 is...Clearing, not a whole lot of difference in production, but pushing dirt the 6 wins out...not be a factor of 3 or more, but noticeably more production...AND FUEL...We had the 7 completely rebuilt, not all at the same time, but put a ton of money in it during the winter of 85, reman pony motor in it this fall...If there was a life threatening situation and we needed a Cat that would do the job no matter how cold, wet, or hot it was, the 7 is still more reliable that the 6...Forgot, but the 7 has hyd blade with the hyd group mounted behind the radiator...First appearance doesn't impress much as it looks like it would overheat with the hyd tank and controls in the way of air flow but the 7 won't get hot...ever...the 6 will heat up, we run distilled treated water in it during the summer months...Learned that trick with the 977L we had before the 6...the 6 has all new parts in both final drives, including the dead axles, torque converter is reman, only have engine and trans to go...I honestly believe the 7 will stay here longer than the 6...it is sure handy to load up quick to go pull out a combine or other machine and get back in time for dinner or supper...it has saved the day for us many a time...When I was a kid I always wanted a 7, to hear that torque load up, the tag says 1340 rpm I think, and it sounds like it is pulling down to 75 rpm at times if I don't react quick enough with the hyd lever.
someone mentioned the cable tractors had no down pressure on the blade...One of my biggest mistakes was trying to force the blade into the ground rather than keeping the cutting edge sharp...if I forced the blade down, it would hesitate then drop 8 inches quick, to quick to recover and made for not a very good road for the scrapers...I always try to carry at least part of the weight of the blade.
I guess we could say we still make a living with our old antiques.
12-15-2006, 08:23 PM
There is a D6C with cable dozer listed in a area shoppers paper that is asking 25,000 for it and lists just a phone number. catskinner
12-15-2006, 08:58 PM
My book lists the D6C 10K 849 as a 68 year, 1968 305- 1454. catskinner
12-15-2006, 09:18 PM
Thanks for the notice of the 6C being for sale...I would like to buy it, would rather have a 6D now that I have gotten used to the brake at the end of the cutting clutch, I member them cussing the brake on the steering lever at first...Now, older, more fragile, appreciate the brake on the steering lever quite a bit.
while I have your attention, what do you know about a SPectra Physics 942 transmitter?
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