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puffer@rpi.edu
03-27-2012, 05:47 PM
I read in issue 96 of the acmoc mag that the flywheel ring gear from a Ford 390 motor will fit a CAT22 flywheel. From the CAT22 parts manual the ring gear, 2B914, has 118 teeth. That is what I have in my 22. When I check on the ring gear for a Ford 390 motor it has either 153 or 184 teeth, depending on year, and the diameter is wrong. Am I missing something here? Does anyone have knowledge of what the correct replacement ring gear is, and where to find one? Or does anyone have one to sell? Ray

Willie
03-27-2012, 06:05 PM
I was told long ao it was same as Ford Ranger PU

puffer@rpi.edu
03-27-2012, 08:28 PM
I was told long ao it was same as Ford Ranger PU

All of the Ranger flywheel ring gears I have located have the wrong diameters and wrong number of teeth.

Jon
03-27-2012, 09:57 PM
what is the inside and outside diameter of the ring gear? Jon

Jon
03-27-2012, 10:12 PM
What is the inside and outside diameter of the ring gear? Jon

puffer@rpi.edu
03-28-2012, 05:11 AM
What is the inside and outside diameter of the ring gear? Jon

Jon, I do not have calipers that large, but the approximate ID is 13 7/16" and the OD is 15"

I am leaving on a week's vacation and will be without computer access, so will check in with everyone when I get back in a week. Ray

drujinin
03-28-2012, 06:08 AM
In an old Ford Model A repair book, it stated that the engine always stops between the same 2 cylinders that are 180 degrees apart. The cheap fix recommendation is to heat it, then rotate 90 degrees to an unworn section of the Ring Gear.
Also the poor-mans overhaul is to take the ring gear off and flip it over providing it has double bevel teeth.
Remember I am repeating what I read, not what I recommend!
Jeff

Jon
03-30-2012, 10:58 AM
When you get back you can stare at this for a while.

http://www.ringgearindia.com/docs/products.asp

lil cat mec
03-30-2012, 01:05 PM
Jon- there are only 2 that even have 118 teeth and the in dia is 18.372/out dia is 19.880 or 19.885 so that will not help any...

Old Magnet
03-30-2012, 02:19 PM
Check the 80's model Ranger with the 2.9 liter (I think) V-6. Used to have one (long gone) in the family. Still have the manuals somewhere I'll see if I can find them but size and tooth count sounds about right.

lil cat mec
03-30-2012, 04:47 PM
the 80's ranger/bronco with the 2.9l has a flywheel ring gear with 138, i dont know the diameters but it is 20 teeth off!!!

Steve A
03-30-2012, 04:58 PM
I seem to recall reading it was a ranger diesel, I believe that was a mazda engine. Its a long shot

lil cat mec
03-30-2012, 05:37 PM
the 80's ford ranger diesels have a 132 tooth design... with 10.141 ID and 11.256 OD!

still not right:(

dmgrow
03-30-2012, 07:16 PM
While you are looking....

In the late 60's and early 70's Ford made F250s also called a Ranger.
You might look at a 300 six and 302 as well

Dave

chugwater crawlers
03-30-2012, 07:57 PM
I have a Cat 22 with a starter that someone added to it. I was also told it has Ford 390 ring gear on it. I think the issue is not matching the teeth to your old ring gear, it's finding a ring gear that can be pressed on, then matching the teeth and reach on the starter to line up with the ring gear. Mine has a AC Delco starter that is hooked to a battery with no generator. It works good.

Dennis Poggennsee restored a 22 that was featured in the magazine. He used a Ford ring gear. He heated it up and pressed it on. Then matched a starter to it similiar to mine.

He also did a similiar modification to a R2.

lil cat mec
03-30-2012, 08:59 PM
would it be possible to buy a 1970 ford ranger 4.9l ring gear then a starter for the ford and machine a plate to fit the starter to the cat?
if i had the money i would be willing to try it but i just don't have the funds...

Old Magnet
03-30-2012, 09:12 PM
I'd agree, find a ring gear that fits and back into the starter.

Where all those flywheels cut to handle a ring gear?

lil cat mec
03-30-2012, 09:28 PM
i do not know that answere... :(
im happy though i came up with an idea that you (Old Magnet) agrees with

bruce oz
03-31-2012, 12:05 AM
hello ,or you could just get one made .bruce oz
http://www.ringgearindia.com/docs/products.asp

lil cat mec
03-31-2012, 12:56 AM
i didn't realize you can give them the specs and they will make one... that may be a good way to go... but if the ford 390 ring gear + starter works, it would make it a nice and easy replacement with cheep starter replacement!!!

Steve A
03-31-2012, 07:07 AM
Bruce

I want to install electric start on my big 20, The starter shop tells me the starter end is no problem, I have a drawing for the Cat factory ring gear and was considering having a batch of Twenty ring gears made up, maybe a dozen or so with hopes of recovering my $ in the next 10 years. I would like them to be made in the USA.

Soapy
03-31-2012, 11:07 AM
Has anyone ever machined the flywheel to fit the ring gear, if the gear has a slightly smaller I.D. than the O.D of the flywheel?
My $.02 worth

Jon
03-31-2012, 12:04 PM
The big 20 flywheel is machined for the ring gear. The fly wheel for the 22 is NOT, unless ordered from the factory with special part (SP). Jon

Old Magnet
03-31-2012, 12:09 PM
That's kind of what I was thinking on the 22. Thanks

lil cat mec
03-31-2012, 02:29 PM
would the big 20 flywheel work for the 22?

manxdog
03-31-2012, 06:03 PM
just an observation, seems a lot of you guys on here seem very keen to retro fit starters to petrol engined Cats, is there a big reason or is it just for conveniance and you have the ability to do so?
I have a Cat R2 (4J972SP) and dont have any bother starting it on crank, gos 2nd or 3rd swing every time.
dont wish to upset anybody, was just curious as to why thats all!

Steve A
03-31-2012, 06:26 PM
manxdog

Good question, Part of what I like about old crank start tractors is I dont have to buy batteries and a well tuned gasser will start easily. I usually rope start the pony on my D2 because it is easier than getting a battery to hook to the electric start. As far as my 20, I just thought it would be fun, the same reason I brought the thing home and spend lots of time on it, the satisfaction of making it work.

Lil cat

No, the 20 ring gear is 138 teeth, 16 inches ID and 17.45 OD Part no 1B 5378

lil cat mec
03-31-2012, 07:06 PM
okay...

ManxDog im my case i have a loader on the front and the hand crank is unuseable and if someone has a blade on theirs it would also be a must!

thomas84
03-31-2012, 10:58 PM
Bruce

I want to install electric start on my big 20, The starter shop tells me the starter end is no problem, I have a drawing for the Cat factory ring gear and was considering having a batch of Twenty ring gears made up, maybe a dozen or so with hopes of recovering my $ in the next 10 years. I would like them to be made in the USA.

Let me know if you end up running a batch of ring gears Steve, Wouldnt mind having a ring gear on my No.9.:smokin:

Neil
04-01-2012, 07:27 PM
I have a blade on the front of my 22 but it starts so easily that it's not a big deal - I just drop the blade, reach over, casually pull it over TDC and it's running. Would be a collectible though to have a genuine starting arrangement on it. I'm pondering the same thing for the D2.
Cheers,
Neil.

puffer@rpi.edu
04-05-2012, 07:16 PM
My 22 has the electric start option from the factory. I need to replace the ring gear as it is chewed up badly. The original ring gear has 118 teeth. and the ID is approximately 13.25." I have not been able to find a replacement gear yet, but am still searching. Although issue 96 of the acmoc magazine says that the ri9ng gear from a Ford 390 motor fits, I do not think so. It is a different diameter adn has 184 teeth. I hate to have one made custom for me, so if anyone knows where I can find a 118T ring gear for the 22 please let me know. If I do have to have one made I will probably have several made adn see if anyone else wants one. Ray

puffer@rpi.edu
04-06-2012, 08:48 AM
Bruce

I want to install electric start on my big 20, The starter shop tells me the starter end is no problem, I have a drawing for the Cat factory ring gear and was considering having a batch of Twenty ring gears made up, maybe a dozen or so with hopes of recovering my $ in the next 10 years. I would like them to be made in the USA.

Steve,
can you share with us the drawing you have for the big 20 ring gear so we can see if it also fits the 22? If it does fit then I am sure there are those of us with factory installed electric start who might be interested in them as well.

In my case I have the electric start option as well as a generator, battery, lights, horn, etc. Unfortunately my ring ear is chewed up and I need to replace it. Have not found a replacement yet. Ray

lil cat mec
04-07-2012, 05:08 PM
for those of you with chewed up ring gears is it possible for you to reverse your ringgears and put it on backwards???
just a thought...

puffer@rpi.edu
04-07-2012, 09:22 PM
for those of you with chewed up ring gears is it possible for you to reverse your ringgears and put it on backwards???
just a thought...

lcm, if anyone tries that he would have to machine chamfers in all of the ring gear teeth, as the original gears only had the chamfers on one side of the teeth. Ray

puffer@rpi.edu
05-07-2012, 01:58 PM
I have sent a few inquiries to manufacturers in India to see what the costs might be for one or for ten. Please let me know (ray.puffer@gmail.com) if you might be interested in one of I buy ten. Thanks, Ray

drujinin
05-07-2012, 05:59 PM
I took photo's a couple of years ago of a CAT TEN that came out of the "Great North Woods" that had an Electric Starter on it!
Incredible as it seems, it actually really looked like it belonged there!
It had a mounted Generator and a front drive pump(I think?) for the blade that was on it.
Jeff

puffer@rpi.edu
05-22-2012, 04:22 PM
Well, I finally found a source for CAT22 ring gears. I got a reply from one of the inquiries I sent to ring gear manufacturers in India. They said that they will make the ring gears for us. The bad news is that the minimum order quantity is 500, and their would be a development cost of $4,200!!!!!!! Guess I will just try to rotate my flywheel 60 or 120 degrees and hope for the best.

Anyone have deep pockets and want to go into the ring gear business? lol

Ray

ronm
05-22-2012, 07:48 PM
Ray, have you tried Carquest or NAPA? they should have a listing of all ring gears by tooth count & ID...

puffer@rpi.edu
05-22-2012, 08:59 PM
Ray, have you tried Carquest or NAPA? they should have a listing of all ring gears by tooth count & ID...

I checked with NAPA. They have no listing that is even close. I checked another source catalog (Venture Products) with 175 listings. Again, nothing close. 118 teeth, but not close on ID/OD. Ray

John from Fresno
05-22-2012, 11:00 PM
Maybe the pinion on the starter could be changed to match the numer of the teet on the new flywheel ring gear?

Has anyone check this out?


APPLICATION FRG NO. OEM NO. OUTER DIA. INNER DIA. THK PITCH NO OF TEETH

Perkins F115 13100 410236 14.555 13.443 0.685 8/10 115


John

cayankee
05-22-2012, 11:24 PM
Hi Guys,

Although I've only done it for myself, I have had great success with using my MIG welder loaded with stainless #308 wire to buildup worn, missing and broken gear teeth. I generally make a jig or guide for the nozzle to follow to get accurate placement of the weld filet. Then I "rough out" the general dimensions with a Dremel tool and hand finish with hand files making a following gauge patterned from a section of teeth with the least wear so I can match the pitch and other dimensions of the teeth as I hand work them.
It's tedious and takes some time to do, but the results have always been a vast improvement than what I started with and only cost me my time.

Mike Walsh
05-23-2012, 01:23 AM
You might want to take a look at this Perkins aftermarket site.

http://www.emacsz.com/product/perkins-flywheel-ring-gear.htm

They list a 118T ring gear with the correct OD. The ID is 13.8" which is larger than the two ID dimensions that have been posted. Perhaps it can be adapted if the cross section is close.

Or you can always try this.

29955

puffer@rpi.edu
05-23-2012, 07:19 AM
Maybe the pinion on the starter could be changed to match the numer of the teet on the new flywheel ring gear?

Has anyone check this out?


APPLICATION FRG NO. OEM NO. OUTER DIA. INNER DIA. THK PITCH NO OF TEETH

Perkins F115 13100 410236 14.555 13.443 0.685 8/10 115


John

John, the closest fit I have found is a 146SR ring gear (OEM EAA-6384-A) that fits 52-67 Ford/Merc with L6 or V8 engines. 14.774" OD and 13.352" ID. Would require machining flywheel and making an adapter plate to handle new starter. Not sure if pinion shaft would be long enough. There are no chamfers on the ring gear teeth, so they would have to be cut. Also, it is less than half as wide as the .750" width on the stock ring gear. By the time you cut the chamfer there is little bearing length left. Ray

puffer@rpi.edu
05-23-2012, 07:27 AM
You might want to take a look at this Perkins aftermarket site.

http://www.emacsz.com/product/perkins-flywheel-ring-gear.htm

They list a 118T ring gear with the correct OD. The ID is 13.8" which is larger than the two ID dimensions that have been posted. Perhaps it can be adapted if the cross section is close.

Or you can always try this.

29955

Mike, I wonder if this shop is still operating. Probably south of the border. :-) Ray

puffer@rpi.edu
05-23-2012, 07:31 AM
Hi Guys,

Although I've only done it for myself, I have had great success with using my MIG welder loaded with stainless #308 wire to buildup worn, missing and broken gear teeth. I generally make a jig or guide for the nozzle to follow to get accurate placement of the weld filet. Then I "rough out" the general dimensions with a Dremel tool and hand finish with hand files making a following gauge patterned from a section of teeth with the least wear so I can match the pitch and other dimensions of the teeth as I hand work them.
It's tedious and takes some time to do, but the results have always been a vast improvement than what I started with and only cost me my time.

How would you like to come visit in upstate New York for a few days? Free room and board in exchange for your time in the shop. Ray

John from Fresno
05-23-2012, 08:33 AM
[QUOTE=Mike Walsh;92016]You might want to take a look at this Perkins aftermarket site.

http://www.emacsz.com/product/perkins-flywheel-ring-gear.htm

They list a 118T ring gear with the correct OD. The ID is 13.8" which is larger than the two ID dimensions that have been posted. Perhaps it can be adapted if the cross section is close.
QUOTE]

This site also listed the same gear that I mentioned. But, without accurate measurements it is hard to help.

John

Old Magnet
05-23-2012, 09:01 AM
What's the chances of welding in a replacement section that's close?
Haven't had to do that but I don't see why it couldn't be done.

puffer@rpi.edu
06-24-2012, 06:57 PM
Well, after all my searching and head scratching here is what I decided to do about my flywheel ring gear. I had my local machine shop flip the ring gear, turn it 90 degrees, then cut new chamfers on all the teeth. They did a good job. While the ring gear was off I had them also make and press in a new stud that holds the clutch disk to the flywheel as one of mine was spinning around, and I had to drill through it and insert a locking pin in order to get the clutch disk off. I sure hope it was worth all the effort. Ray