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View Full Version : A D-Day Appeal to Members from the Board and the Nominating Committee



gwhdiesel75
06-06-2012, 07:01 PM
There are 3 seats up for election to the ACMOC board of directors. President Dave Wintermute (New Jersey) and Director Jim Clack (Maryland), will be termed-out at the end of this year. Director Hudson Biggs (New Zealand) has chosen not to run.

We very much need volunteers to serve on the board. Every volunteer organization, including churches and others, has a difficult time these days in securing volunteer leadership. ACMOC is no exception.

The 9 member board of directors usually meets monthly by telephone conference call (we have a toll-free line for Directors who don’t have unlimited long-distance service). Meetings normally last from 1 to 2 hours each. We try to have a face-to-face meeting every spring in Peoria, Illinois, which meeting lasts a couple of days, with time out for Cat plant tours. We also try to have face-to-face meetings at the ACMOC annual national shows.

There are many important questions facing the board and we struggle with them. The board runs this club; it is not an honorary or debating society. There are a number of committees of the board that report and recommend on problems and their solutions. There is constant challenge and change going on.

We need people on the board with new and different perspectives. We would like to see younger members volunteer – we think the club (like many) is aging, and we’d like to recruit younger people into the hobby. We’d also like to see more members from the eastern part of the US volunteer too.

Feel free to respond to this posting giving your views on joining the board. We’d like to hear from you. Our time is growing short and the nominating committee needs to hear from members. Thanks for any consideration you can give to this message.

George W. Howard

ianoz
06-06-2012, 09:30 PM
Well , I don't know about anyone else ,but I would like to see George W Howard , nominated to stand ,and bring his experience and a steady hand at the wheel ,Back to the club .
While the idea of getting youger people involved in running the club definately has merit .Very few can ,I would think , be able to have the time to Needed to put into the position . Not with out affecting Family and work commitments .
So what say you other members .Any seconds to nominate GWH ?

chriscokid
06-07-2012, 07:36 AM
One thing to consider about George is he is already the recording sec. for the ACMOC club and is very busy keeping all information accurate and current.
George is very good at what he does and is very qualified to do the job and as a director but.... we would like more people involved so the workload is spread evenly across all volunteers.

Now I am not speaking for George and if he wants to put his name in the hat as a director I welcome it.

gwhdiesel75
06-07-2012, 08:15 AM
Thanks Ianoz and Erik. No, thank you, but no, I'm not desirous of joing the board. I've had my turn, and think others would benefit from the privilege. I've seen a number of complaints voiced over the years about things the board has done, or failed to do. Isn't it time for the "complainers" to step up to the plate and help the board do the right things? Well, that is probably a bit of an overstatement. But you get the idea.

For those "overseas", I forgot to mention that Hudson attended the Peoria meeting by telephone conference call. We don't expect him to travel to Peoria for a meeting.

The board needs some new blood and I was hoping that by bringing this matter to everyone's attention on the bulletin board, some members might be stimulated to offer their services to the club. Let us not have a club where the same guys rotate through the board repeatedly. We don't want this to become an "old boy's network", but one that is open to change with improvement.

GWH

tw
06-07-2012, 06:26 PM
Some years back Al Smith had me just about talked into running for a director seat. We discussed it at length and I was a director on the BOD of our local club and trying to get a digging area started at the club. Maybe it is time to look at it as my term limit is up as a director at the local club and we are established in our sand box with a building going up.
Terry

biggastractor
06-07-2012, 09:18 PM
The bad part......Being on any Board of Directors requires time and effort. Sometimes difficult decisions need to be made.
The good part.....You get to meet lots of wonderful people in our club. You get a sense of satisfaction knowing you are working for a good cause and one that you support. You get to see the fruits of your labors and watch projects and ideas materialize and grow.

I have been on the board and would encourage anyone with an interest to PM myself with questions. I am sure George and other existing or past members would be willing to help too. Many good organizations run on the backs of volunteers. Ours is one of them. Give it some thought.

Biggastractor

Willie
06-08-2012, 12:13 AM
Terry What Biggastractor said couldnt have been said any better, as chairman of the nominating committee I'm looking forward to hearing from you before the 15th of June
Thanks for volunteering Willie

ianoz
06-08-2012, 10:21 PM
One thing to consider about George is he is already the recording sec. for the ACMOC club and is very busy keeping all information accurate and current.
George is very good at what he does and is very qualified to do the job and as a director but.... we would like more people involved so the workload is spread evenly across all volunteers.

Now I am not speaking for George and if he wants to put his name in the hat as a director I welcome it.

Out of interest , Why,if George is busy recording what is happening at BoD meetings , Is this infomation not being shown in the members area ?. I have asked the question a couple of days ago in the BB operations area ,with no responce .It has been over 6 months since a meeting has been updated .
Yes I know there is a report in each magazine ,but it is a quick summary .
In the last report I read ,it was said the there was a difference of 30 of DW20 models shown held in stock ,to the number sold .. That is about $6000.00 worth , Now I have been waiting since September last year for the next BoD report which the The Question asked of First gear as to the stocktake number was to be answered ..
I also pointed out that 14 of the 17 Links to Additional Photo and infomation from earlier magazine stories do not work .

7upuller
06-08-2012, 11:05 PM
Hey Gang,

I agree with GWH in his post above. It's time for complainers to step up and do the right thing. The club needs you to give some time and fix it right.

ianoz
06-09-2012, 02:05 PM
I dont remember anything about 30 DW20s missing and we did and inventory audit awhile back and all checked out correct. We are not missing 30 DW20s and never did.
GWH is one guy working as a volunteer and what he does is very very good and as he gets time Im sure he will post the newer minutes but its long process. After meeting minutes are done we have to wait till next meeting to aprove the minutes before they can be release and we have cut staff back to save money and all this posting is done now by volunteers at their conveniance and things just dont happen that fast. But if you want to step up and volunteer to do it we would be more then happy to have you help out. Everything GWH does now for free, was done by paid staff in the past.
.
As for GWH as BoD member we have asked many times over the past year and close to beg him to be on the BoD but its something he says no to. When we appointed him as the rec. sec. we could have just as easly appointed him as a BoD member and club sec. if he would have been willing.
If you dont like something here,you have a chance to change it, just send in your resume and request to run for BoD election.

With All due respect Willie ,Taken from the minutes , It was a committe meeting report , one that you did not take part in .
"There is a significant difference in the DW20 quantity with a loss of 31 models noted."
.
Seems to me If the club is looking for younger people With a passion for caterpillar machinery ,and qualitys needed are that they have complained about the direction the club has been headed .
Then I nominate Bob Stewart and Byron Heal.

gwhdiesel75
06-09-2012, 05:33 PM
Ianoz, at the last board meeting a week and a half ago, I volunteered to go over the minutes from the last ones posted on the members-only area of the bb to current, remove the stuff that can't be released to the public, and send them on to be put on the website. I don't know how to post them on the website. We haven't updated the website in some time because it costs us so darn much money. Our contractor charges something in the range of 150 to 200 US dollars per hour, and the board has felt that it was not a priority, given the importance of other expenses. We have had to trim back on expenses significantly. When I run across the standards to be used in cutting stuff out of the minutes, I'll put them up here so you can see what is being cut out. It is stuff like "prioprietory" information that under our contract with Cat is not to be released, performance reviews of our employees in Peoria. I'll have to referesh my memory on those things before I do the work.

GWH

ianoz
06-09-2012, 07:30 PM
Hi George , If you look down in the members Support area , Bruce has answered and cleared up a few of the questions asked .
I asked the questions down there Thinking ADCO {Megan } was a member of the office staff and i was the right place to ask in the first place ,When it went unanswered , Eriks reply as to you working on the minutes opened the door to ask the question . It was not as others put a complaint, But a Genuine enquiry .
As for me standing for BoD position , I believe there are far more worthy and qualified members in a better position to give the club what it needs to move forward .

7upuller
06-09-2012, 09:05 PM
Hey Garlic Pete,

Why don't you ask the board for permission to use your masterful writting skills and send a letter to the President of Cat. Tell them when we Partnered with them at the dinner, 30 model center peices were slightly damaged. Inform him that for display or Cat functions they are usable, but not for resale. Ask him if he could be so kind to help out with the damage, as our club can not suffer the $6000 loss. we can deliver them to Cat for functions. Just an idea, but I'm sure the board would like to discuss it. The way I see it, it doesn't hurt to ask. I would be happy to do it for you if you would like, but Garlic, I can't match your writting skills, can grade better than you, but not write better.:tape2:-glen

Willie
06-09-2012, 09:17 PM
Ianoz I think you should run for the BoD seems you care enough to be paying attention and following the actions of the club.

We did have some damaged and few stolen from ConAg but Cat Inc more then made up for them by giving use a few pallets of merchandise that we have sold for 10 times what we lost in damaged units. There has been times when all the nubmers of what we shipped,what we had in stock and what we have been paid for didnt jive and it ended up being that the its a continuos process and to get it exact you would have to freeze all transactions for couple weeks to make sure all the models sold were shipped and all money collected was in the bank and then do an inventory.

We order 1250 models from SpecCast or 1st Gear they manufacture them store them and ship them they owe us 1250 models. As we sell them and send shipping info to manufacture and they ship them to the buyer. we do that for 1250 items and if we are short it becomes the manufatures problem not ours they owe us those models. Other then a couple models we use as displays or have instock for shows, they are never seen or touched by ACMOC staff,thats the way all our models are handled. We have profomance bond by the manufactures that covers this. We do not have coverage for when were get dumb and take a check then send models before we know the check is good.

We have recently lost a couple models to bounced checks and mail fraud but that has been corrected also. As of our last meeting that number that the 2 manufatures have is somewhere around 8,000 or 9,000 units we are given the exact number (that I dont have in front of me) every month prior to our meetings Peter and Finn. guy and Jim as models guy keeps close tabs on all the units and me as a pain in the ass makes sure they do LOL

Trust me gentlemen this is something that I watch very closely knowing what has happend in the past where some were stored in storage some in a somebodys garage and some in someone elses barn and NOBODY had a clue to what was where.

tw
06-09-2012, 09:29 PM
Since I seem to be the only one that has inquired about the postion of Director. I would like to know what the qualifications are. I may not be quailifed to become a Board member?. Willie can you share that with us. It sounds like you do not have to be a member of the club to be on the Board?
Thanks
Terry

gwhdiesel75
06-09-2012, 09:59 PM
Terry, qualification is that you must be a member in good standing. No other formal qualifications according to the bylaws. The board has imposed one other qualification, and that is that you have e-mail capacity (i.e., you know how to send and receive e-mails) because that is how various members of the board typically communicate.

We'd love to have more folks volunteer.

GWH

Willie
06-09-2012, 10:03 PM
To be a BoD member you have to be a paid member in goodstanding of ACMOC you have to attend 10 tele confrence meetings,a face to face meeting in Peoria and attend the National show ea. year. You are incouraged to take part in diff committees and help do others things to promote the club and take part in whatever you feel comfortable doing. The most important thing is if you do become a BoD member, is to follow thru with you commitments and not leave them for everyone else to to do.

When something is voted on by the BoD no matter how you felt before the vote you are expected to respect that decision.
There is lot more to it then most think if you do it right, but as was stated by Biggastractor it has it rewards also.

No matter how it seems sometimes when we are meeting or acting in offcial compasitity we are all genlemen and treat each other as gentlemen.

Its not rocket sience. or brain surgery. It really only takes common sence.

ianoz
06-10-2012, 12:03 AM
Willie As i Said ,With respect . Page 14 of the minutes is where it is written . Then on page 15 it goes on to the models that where damaged in shipping from a show ,which is what Glen seems to have once more got his facts misread .. It does say about the 31 DW20s that it could have been a miscalulation .The way I read it that the finance commitee ,Who should have had the correct number of models sold by the club said by First gears reported count , there were 31 unacounted for .Finance commitee words not mine .
Why is it you think I am implying that the club has lost /stole ,or what ever these models ? Read the Minutes .

hicrop10
06-10-2012, 10:28 AM
Gentlemen,lets not forget that the BOD's are not paid nor do they get free trip to pango pango, where ever that may be,they do all of the work so that the few thousand of us may benefit from it.If there is 31 models missing then lets find out what happen and fix it.Like Willie said it is not rocket science.I have seen first hand how this all works.My son plays collage lacrosse in a division 1 program.My wife was elected to run the tailgating for the team and the parents after each game( which could be twice aweek) these game took us from Maryland,Michigan,Pa,Delaware,RI,CT,New York.What we had to do was to set all the meals for the team and parents after each game,and mind you we didn't get the free trip to pango pango but we did get aload of crap from some parents that would have done it this way or that way.My reponse back to them was here the games left and the times of the games,if you can do better then have at it.Not one of the complainers steped up.Since we did such an awful job at this no one has steped up to do next years job.Guess what,looks like I'll be doing some catering next year.The point I'm trying to make is not do critize anyone but if you don't,won't,can't do the job then don't complaine about the ones that are doing it.Just my 2 cents.MIke Durkin By the way you wouldn't want me on the bod because I would tell all of the complainers to go to a place that started with an H and is real hot.Have a great weekend whats left of it and let be the first to wish all fathers out there a happy fathers day.

Willie
06-10-2012, 11:41 AM
As I said there is no way for anybody Finn. comm.,BoD, Manufacture or even a guy as smart as you to know any models are missing without suspending sales for 2 weeks let everything work through the pipeline then go take physicail count and compare to Petes records.

Our office receives order,then money get deposited and logged. order is sent to manuf. for shipping. recpt. sent to Pete for accounting. Pete make report to Finn comm. This process is done over a couple weeks and it is totally impossable for all invloved to know any exact number except their own, unless we stop and let the back of the train to catch up with the front and its a long train. We have 3 ACMOC staff in Peoria.1 finn. officer and 1 staff in Bakersfield CA and then we have the shipping and acounting dept. at 1st Gear. then when 1st gear goes to wharehouse to count models how many are in the shipping dept.??

Im most cases when we are presented these things that are off! they come with a verbal explaination as to why,like the person who handles that was sick or on vaction Ect.

We may have had trouble figureing out the way it was done when Pete first started and the Tail was wagging the Dog in regaurds to club managment but since we have overhauled the system where it works for the beniftt of our members. not paid staff.

john weller
06-10-2012, 05:18 PM
GWH, you started the thread with A D-Day Appeal to Members from the BOD and the Nominating Committee, for 3 spaces to fill on the board and you asked for younger members to get involved with the running of the club affairs err Correct !,

Here you have IanOz sounds like the younger generation to myself, asking a question about Models Misssing, I Surport IanOz for asking the question. Willie I have been involved with global stock audits and we close the centre for 12 hours ONLY if the part (model) anit in production, then its gone to stores or dispatch, and if its in Dispatch they will have RECORDS.

Can I apply for bod position at 50 + ?, I have been a paid in member for 5 years only found the computer site 2 years ago, my past work includes body shop finishing and currently working for HM Revenue & Customs, after looking throu the figures in the statment from the last magazine, and a phone call to acmoc office, I found out a lot of interesting information.

IanOz you have my vote for BOD young blood is needed. John

tw
06-10-2012, 08:38 PM
George and Willie, thanks for the qualifications for Board Of Director. I have spoken to two past BOD members in the last two days. Both told me there is a bit more time involved than what has been said. This I know from other BOD positions I have held. I am 56 years old, I have been a member of ACMOC for about 10 years. Part of my job is working with people to get conflicts resolved. Both past directors encouraged me to run.

It sounds like there may be some more interest now. Maybe this debate is what was needed.

I will be sending Willie something later this week.

Thanks for the info

Terry

chriscokid
06-13-2012, 05:33 PM
I hope you guys are serious about wanting to help because we have more tasks to do than man-hours to do them!

If the Club had to pay for all of the man-hours invested to make this club run, then there would be no club.

For example:
I invest at least 20+ hours a week into this club on top of my duties at my job which on average take 60-80 hours of my time.
Then there is the Chapter 12 responsibilities and all the calls and emails I get from people around the world.
Now I am not complaining but just so you know that we are not sitting around talking about nothing,

Oh and I forgot there is the wife and two kids that need some of my time as well!

Granted I have enjoyed most of the work and time that I have invested but..... It does require a great deal of time and effort.

We are always looking for volunteers!
If you are willing, send in your information and Lets roll up our sleeves and go to work!

Mike Meyer
06-14-2012, 05:21 PM
I'd like to take the opportunity here to thank the three retiring Directors for their contribution to the running of this Club, without the volunteered effort of those generous folks, our journey of saving old crawlers would be so much harder, so a sincere thankyou from Mike Meyer in Australia, and I'm sure everyone else. I must say I was staggered to see GWH say "looking at page 84 of the minutes....." and clarify those 84 plus pages of minutes pertained to just one meeting, not the running record of every ACMOC BOD meeting since it's inception, so the minutes of a previous meeting must take several hours to read before starting a new meeting and agenda! WOW, that's a lot of talking by the BOD, and recording of that talking by the Secretary, thankyou, but ACMOC is a business that employs staff and has tax obligations with the IRS, so I shouldn't be surprised.

It is acknowledged that with so many Financial ACMOC Members in both Australia / New Zealand, and the British Isles, including Britain, Ireland and Scotland, that there is a real need for a "International" Director on the BOD to help represent those Financial Members of ACMOC outside the U.S.A., and so I'd like to nominate Ianoz as a candidate to represent my best interests here in Australia on the ACMOC BOD. I realise this may come as a complete shock to Ianoz because I haven't had a chance to talk to him privately about this matter, but I can see by looking at his posts that he does really want to be part of the problem solving process of running such a huge Club, and does really care, I mean who else here takes the time to search out the Minutes of previous meetings and ask questions about the Clubs financial position, other than those on the BOD obviously? These are the folks with a real and genuine desire to see the job done right, rather than just talking about it, and they are the one's trying to make it better for everyone.
regards
Mike Meyer

Old Magnet
06-14-2012, 08:14 PM
Hi Mike,
Sounds more like a position that you should run for, hell might as well take the whole club to Oz, might be just far enough from the Corp. Cat influence to get things done.
Skip the "author" recomendation......run for public office.

Mike Meyer
06-14-2012, 09:23 PM
Hi Mike,
Sounds more like a position that you should run for, hell might as well take the whole club to Oz, might be just far enough from the Corp. Cat influence to get things done.
Skip the "author" recomendation......run for public office.

Hi Pete, Good to see you still have your sense of humour, but no one in the U.S.A understands a word I'm saying now!:lol: Somehow we have to find a balance between protecting the original ethos and fellowship of ACMOC, yet move the Club forward with our thousands of members while respecting the obligations to our most valuable corporate partner, Cat. Inc., without them onside ACMOC might as well set up shop in Willie's local Donut shop because we wont need employees or 100 pages of minutes from each meeting:lol:
regards
Mike

Old Magnet
06-14-2012, 09:38 PM
Don't understand you???????That's the same kinda talk we hear every day here, you've just mastered the foreign version. LOL

Mike Meyer
06-14-2012, 09:42 PM
Hello Hudson, Many thanks again for your contribution to help the running of ACMOC as a Director, it has been much appreciated. I'm curious as are others I'm sure, how much time from your experience is spent as an International Director helping run ACMOC, because obviously you are on the phone for hours each meeting not being able to fly to the USA, but then I assume also having to read and sign off on 100's of pages of minutes from previous meetings, and the numerous confidential matters the ACMOC BOD must confer upon separately that the normal members like myself are unaware of. You must spend a lot of time looking at ACMOC BOD emails, I mean Chriscokid mentions 20 or more hours a normal week being spent just on his ACMOC activities.

I'm sure there are many good members both here in Australia and New Zealand, and also in the British Isles thinking they would like to become more involved in helping run this Club as a Director, but unsure if they have the spare time, so I'm hoping you can share your experience with us. I'm also curious to know of the legal obligations that apply to Directors of the BOD, as I assume their obligations and responsibilities are no different from any other Director of a Corporation, is there a Indemnity program in place for Directors should for example an employee sue ACMOC for wrongful dismissal, or be injured while attending a Trade Show or Rally on our behalf?

I look forward to hearing from you and wish you every success in your ACMOC BOD "retirement".
All the best
Mike

Cat-astrophe
06-15-2012, 07:43 PM
Hello Mike, I have been following this thread as it involves the looming BoD elections, and i know that Willie is "moving heaven and earth" to obtain nominations. I respond to your questions in my personal capacity not as a BoD member.

The Club has a great many challenges ahead of it and the next few years will be critical for the club. The estimate of 20 hours / week i believe is a honest reflection of the commitment required of a BoD member. It is intended that each BoD member also chair a specific committee ie finance, models, membership, website, magazine etc. A development is that non BoD members be co-oped on to these committees to help with the work needed and GWH is an example of this in the Recording Secretary role etc. Personally i am not sure that these levels of commitment from BoD members are sustainable.

A key requirement for a BoD member is what skills can you bring to the BoD. Being a Caterpillar enthusiast is not enough. Thru the historic decision to be involved in models the club has many attributes of a medium size business. There are responsiblities to consider such as being an employer, representing members, model merchandiser, franchisee of Cat, a taxpayer in the US etc, magazine publisher, bulletin board operator. These things do not just happen. It is only since Pete Bloom took over as Treasurer that the timely and accurate financial picture of the club has been available, and this is now being published to members in the magazine.

With regards the International aspect i will state the obvious - "Not everyone thinks the same way as America" and another another truism "we are divided by the English language". Do not underestimate the nuances that this creates.

In regards the time zone differences i have not found this really a problem, but 4 hours out of the middle of a working day in NZ /AU for BoD monthly meetings should be thought thru. A far bigger issue has been Northern Hemisphere v Southern Hemishpere. In Oct / Mar the Stateside based Directors are in winter and have time to devote to the club, at this time we are in summer with less time!

All the directors do an enormous amount of work but you can only contibute so much by phone. You cannot climb on a plane and go to Peoria for 1/2 days. The club is going to have to decide what is important and what it has the resources to deliver. You may have noticed that formation of Chapters are being encouraged and a re-focus on the "grassroots " of the club and membership.

With Dave Wintermute and Jim Clack having completed 2 terms of 3 years and me not standing for election, there is the opportunity for some new blood to come thru to the BoD. The club will need strong leadership, and the ability for the BoD to develop a vision for the future that it is able to effectively communicate to members and get them to "buy into". This might not involve scale models.

If you are thinking of standing for BoD i would encourage you to do so, but you need to understand the commitments. Prudently you also need to conduct a level of due diligence to understand obligations. This is a global club and needs to be thought of in such terms.

Hudson Biggs
PS I am looking forward to completing my term in December and getting back to working on my tractors.

Mike Meyer
06-15-2012, 11:42 PM
Thank you for taking the time to respond to my question Hudson, I understand what you are saying about time zones and subtle language differences, I lived in California for 6 years working with the largest vegetable farmers on the west coast and still have regular contact them, I am also very familiar with the saying "a camel is actually a horse designed by a Committee". I was not thinking of running for Director myself as I already work 7 days a week and often struggle to find that right balance for family time with a wife, farm and 3 teenage kids, and I believe there are others better qualified particularly if you are confirming you spend roughly 20 hours a week on your ACMOC BOD related responsibilities, that is effectively 2 full working days a week spent on the Club as a volunteer, that is a huge commitment.

I was hoping with your feedback maybe others like Ianoz who I've suggested for nomination will be better informed before committing themselves, because for many of us working in private enterprise as Ianoz and I do, as do the major proportion of "less mature" Financial Members of ACMOC I assume, most simply cannot stop work in the middle of a southern hemisphere day for a 4 hour conference call to the USA without risking going broke, or being fired. The other major issue of legal liability as a ACMOC Director is something perhaps Tom Madden could clarify for anyone thinking of running, as it appears the Club has morphed into a larger Corporate entity maybe 90% of it's Financial Members never really intended or desired, I mean we just wanted to save a few old crawlers didn't we, and having employees and tax liabilities and Franchisee agreements means in the USA you have a team of Lawyers and Government Regulators looking carefully at your actions either benignly onside, or potentially hostilely and expensively offside.

The other issue you mention is that of trying to form more regional ACMOC Clubs and I've received several PM's from American members asking why it hasn't happened in Australia yet and it is for the most part simply about the distances involved in trying to get more than one member together, for example "BruceOz" and I live in one of the smallest States in Australia and Bruce visited me this past week for 3 days and it was over 5 hours driving each way, a 10 or 11 hour round trip, and for me to meet "Willsy" or "Edb" or "D23J", other Victorian members would be a 3 hour drive each way, it's just too far, so we rely on regular emails or phone calls to stay in touch, or infrequent visits every couple of years which works fine for me. There maybe someone in other area's of Australia such as Queensland who could start a Chapter, but I do not see it happening within 500 miles of me in the short term.

It will be interesting to see how ACMOC evolves, as I stated in my previous post I believe ACMOC does need a "International" Director because I'm assuming it now has around 20% - 25% International Financial Members, clearly distinct from maybe 40% "non Financial" International Forum Members, but in any case that role of International Director could be possibly filled more effectively and efficiently by someone based in the British Isles working with similar time zones and seasons to the U.S.A.? I do think it is critical ACMOC decisions are made only by those Members who are Financial and in good standing, and not influenced by those who have not put one dollar into the Clubs coffers, talk can be had cheap here on the Board, but it takes real hard earned $$$ to run a Club and Forum like ACMOC, and a lot of volunteer hours we are now learning, and I don't think it is appropriate for International Financial Members to potentially dominate what has always been a U.S founded and based Club, we are merely invited guests, and the recent formation of "The Founders Chapter" on the U.S West Coast perhaps reflects that those who started ACMOC way back when are now feeling they have lost ownership and oversight of "their" Club, and if that's true that's a real shame in my opinion.
regards
Mike

bruce oz
06-16-2012, 05:49 AM
Hello all .I have so many ? Who has the rights to this club.I have seen a club started by few to a club owned. If this club runs to 300 pages for one meeting with no profit it needs to shut down .the top 500 would have less pages for more profit.this is not a club but a company .as some have asked aboaut the laws ?the same laws as .500 company? .Bruce oz

Deas Plant.
06-16-2012, 06:20 AM
To the general membership of ACMOC,
Mike Meyer has summed up very nicely the reasons why there is as yet no DowNunder chapter of ACMOC. The saying, "The tyranny of distance" has a meaning here that few in the Mainland U.S. could truly appreciate. Probably, some of those in Alaska would be able to grasp it. To put it in some sort of persective, it took me four pretty solid days of driving to travel from Woodland, Ca., across I 80 to Kansas and Missouri and then down to Baton Rouge in Louisiana, through about nine states and past possibly 10% of the population of the U.S., maybe some 30-35 million people. It would take me roughly the same time to travel from Cooktown in Northern Queensland to where Mike Meyer lives, across ONE state and PARTS of TWO other states and past maybe about 8 million people. Of that maybe 8 million people, I would be VERY surprised if there were 800 Cat collectors/restorers at any and all levels. And that is down the EAST coast where well over half the entire population of Australia lives.

To put it another way, the ENTIRE population of Australia is about 6 - 8 million LESS than the population fo California - in a land mass not a whole lot smaller than Mainland U.S., the whole 48 states area. Getting to meet face to face IS an issue.

I have previously explained via e-mail to GWH, B4D2 and Willie my reasons for not nominating for the BoD. When I nominated for the BoD two years ago, I was in a position to be able to serve a full three-year term. At this stage, I do not see myself being able to serve a full three-year term because I plan on retiring in around two years and then I plan becoming a "person of no fixed address", living in a trailer home (caravan) and wandering around Australia wherever the wind blows me or the inclination may lead. Some of these places will be more than a little off the beaten track with little or no phone communication. As has been outined by Chriscokid and Hudson Biggs above, such a lifestyle would hardly be conducive to fulfilling the duties of a BoD member. I have made it known that I will be available to serve on committees up until my retirement if the BoD sees a need for it.

Just my 0.02.

B4D2
06-16-2012, 11:28 AM
To all the respondees to this thread: This has been a healthy discourse pertaining to the process and outcome of the responsibilities of a directorship. Even though there are contrary opinions expressed, both of how things should be and who is qualified, the disagreements show a healthy interest in the well-being of the club.

In terms of time commitment, Erik is a very committed fellow who takes his responsibilities seriously. Therein is the reason he spends the amount of time he does. Others are not as able to commit the amounts of time he does. Whereas we would love a member who could volunteer untold amounts of time (like GWHoward), we also realize there are limits to what we can expect from unpaid directors. As Erik said, the challenge of balancing home, work and club life is indeed daunting. Truth be told, some of the 96 page agenda-driven board meetings have gone for several hours, others have been over quickly as the multi-paged agenda includes several pages of boiler-plate legalese to satisfy the i-dotters and the t-crossers. The up side of the responsibility is the satisfaction of a club that continues to operate during the economic decline. Our continued operation is partly thanks to the groundwork laid by previous administrations and the continued belt-tightening efforts of the current. We have approximately 3000 members world-wide, all of whom are the benefactors of the actions of the board. I would suggest to all that if you feel there are better ideas to be had, either contact the current board and share them with us or step up to the plate for your turn at bat. You need not run for a directors position to make a difference. All committees could benefit from volunteers to help share the burden of the stewardship of this club. The directors are currently serving positions on several committees. Even if you do not serve as a member of a committee, there are often times where a project could use someone to do the legwork. A little help goes a long way.

Thanks to all.

Mike Meyer
06-16-2012, 06:03 PM
Hello all .I have so many ? Who has the rights to this club.I have seen a club started by few to a club owned. If this club runs to 300 pages for one meeting with no profit it needs to shut down .the top 500 would have less pages for more profit.this is not a club but a company .as some have asked aboaut the laws ?the same laws as .500 company? .Bruce oz

It does seem that ACMOC has possibly evolved into a "Corporation" that was unable to achieve the business plan goals it set itself 5 years ago and it's expenses have outpaced it's income, like so many other Corporations in the USA who have, or still will tragically go belly up since 2008. I am staggered that the Directors have even 100 pages of minutes from a single monthly meeting, and that it is necessary for the Directors to have to meet face to face on a monthly basis, I mean by the time they have flown across country to the meeting and back home they will have effectively lost a day of their lives and the cost can't be cheap, I'm assuming there are airfares, hotels, meals, airport parking to be covered, and not to mention a 4 hour international phone call from New Zealand in the middle of the day from Hudson each month. Is it possible for the BOD to meet face to face bi monthly or even quarterly, and rely on Conference calls on the other months, just as our International Director Hudson Biggs has, and the new International Director who replaces him will.

I was told once a great saying that applies here I think, "no point having a dog and still barking yourself", and I worry that our BOD have way too much coal face responsibility for what is basically a Non Profit organisation, if being a Director involves 20 hours hands on each week and they have to Chair a Committee too, why? Can't each the Committees organize themselves successfully without the constant oversight and input of a Director from the Board? A non Executive Directors role from my private enterprise experience is to stand back from the coal face and offer their expert guidance to those cutting the coal, they are simply there to offer the benefits of their business experience to those who may need oversight, no more, no less, and I've never seen one of my non Executive Directors do any different, get coal dust on their hands, or a blister from the shovel handle, I don't pay them for that, they are there to ensure I make as much money as I can from my business, while I'm busy at the coalface cutting the coal.

The fact that upwards of 12 or 13 ACMOC Chapters can be successfully run around the USA, and now internationally indicates there are very qualified people in our group doing the hard yards pulling folks together, and I suspect we would attract some more outstanding Directors to the Board if their monthly workload was reduced, and I think ACMOC need to take a long hard look at how best to do that. Is it simply about cutting red tape and paper work, or finding more committee members, or lowering our goals, or raising our fees, because it is obvious right now no one in the USA out of the thousands of Financial Members there, want's to willingly run to fill these 3 vacancies. We need to change that if we are to attract the best Directors we can, and obviously need, and are enormously lucky to have Directors with outstanding financial skills like Peter Bloom who are still working in private enterprise in 2012 in the USA, because only those lean and mean companies are still standing in the USA since the 2008 GFC crisis hit as you all know, because I too can see Pete has brought a new level of of financial accountability to the Club it so badly needed. Money is easy to make in life for the most part isn't it, if you are prepared to travel anywhere and do anything to make a buck, but hanging onto the money we make often proves difficult, as bills soon outweigh our income.

It seems the ACMOC BOD are making inroads into turning the careering wagon away from the precipice that has been losing money, but I think it's time all existing ACMOC Financial Members clarified exactly where they want to see the Club 5 and 10 years from now, and what they want the Club to help them achieve in their business or hobby of saving old crawlers, I mean I'm not into models at all, like most Cat. restorers I need the critical parts so often broken or missing, like carburetors and manifolds, magneto's and gauges to help my journey, but respect others who don't want old iron in their yard but a toy on their shelf, and if those toys make good money for our Club, go as hard as you like. I believe we need to simplify the operation of this Club because ACMOC was never intended to be a Marketing Division for Cat. Inc. even though we very much appreciate any financial help we can garner from them, and it seems our business model in some ways imitates a Top 500 company trading on the New York Stock Exchange with Directors traveling across country for monthly meetings with minutes running to hundreds of pages, crossing "T's" and dotting "I's", and of attending Trade shows and Conventions, and yet not making a buck, surely that can't continue?

It is obvious even though ACMOC has thousands of Financial Members, it is still not providing a pool of North American candidates willing to step up to the plate and help run the Club as a Director on the Board, our most prestigious role I'd assume, yet I'm assuming amongst our membership in the USA, there are hundreds who are, or have been, CEO's or General Managers of their own successful companies for many many years, both large and small, or on the Board of other non Profit organisations and Country Clubs, who could spare 5 or 6 hours a month as a Director on the Board providing oversight, but not necessarily the 20 hours a week at the coalface we are now hearing.

Well, I've talked enough already this Sunday morning, time for a cup of Joe and go work on my old Cats.
regards
Mike

ianoz
06-16-2012, 07:07 PM
Mike , Your barking up the wrong tree there a bit about the board meetings . All Board meetings are confrence calls apart from i Guess any members that can be at the offices . I noted that George had said for the Annual meeting that is face to face Hudson was not expected to fly over for it , but was involved Via phone .. The last minutes in the members area were only less than 20 pages ,so as bruce has said , not all meeting run to 100 pages of minutes . A lot of things are being taken out of context
To me what the rest of what your saying is fairly close to the mark . A club that was formed 20 years ago to help members with their restorations of these great machines has seemingly turned into a nightmare of red tape .
This is a club for the members of the club to beifit by being members of it . This is what the founding fathers set it up for Right .
I think members should be asked to put forward their views of the direction THEIR club should be headed .This Forum give the members a place to voice their views ,and suggestions .Mabe in the members area there should be a forum for raising Ideas and suggestion where health debate can give members aq place to sound ideas out with out the general public having to see to of the unsavory comments made here in public viewing .

Mike Meyer
06-16-2012, 07:39 PM
Glad you clarified the monthly meeting issue, I wouldn't even know where to look for the minutes here on the Forum, much less have the time to read them all. I came back to suggest exactly what you have, a questionaire for ACMOC Financial Members about their thoughts on the Club and the direction it should take, but it must not be run here on the Forum or else 99% of our Financial Members, those receiving the Magazine and supporting our Club, will never post a comment.

I am constantly amazed at the Cat. collectors I meet here in Australia who are ACMOC Financial Members and have been for years, and these guys might have 30, 50, 70 or more antique Cats. with some Holts and Bests in their private collections, yet they don't own a computer, or if they do, they have never once posted a single word here on the Forum and never will, and I reckon they are like 98% of the ACMOC Financial Members in the USA, most just can't be bothered or just don't have the time to be part of this Forum. It doesn't mean they don't care, but most these guys are in their 60's, 70's and 80's are not computer owners, nor interested in becoming one, or even bother with cell phones either.

I am really curious to see a breakdown of ACMOC Financial Members in 2012, how many are living in the USA, and how many are now overseas based, I wonder if that information is available easily? What I'd suggest is in one of the future Club magazines a questionaire be sent out to every Financial Member that can be used to ask the 98% polite, silent majority, what they really want from ACMOC in the future, because right now all we hear is the sound of deafening silence in the USA as the BOD almost plead for volunteers, and it's just a very small minority of Financial Members who are discussing this critical topic here, probably less than 10 people (4 of whom are Australian I notice) trying to fix a problem for thousands of ACMOC Financial Members mostly living in the USA.

I think the ACMOC magazine is the only reason 99.9% of Australians are Financial Members of ACMOC, because the Aussies mostly agree Australia is just too big a country with too few members to create local ACMOC Chapters, so the needs of these non American members are completely different to those Chapter members in the USA isn't it, and a questionaire mailed out with the magazine that can be completed anonymously if wanted, could provide far better research to guide the BOD's future direction than a simple poll run here on the Forum, because I can guarantee you the top 10 biggest Cat. collectors in Australia would not say a single word, they never have yet, and they never will in the future. I suggest we start a new Thread asking members what questions should be asked in such a questionaire, because the fact that you and I have already spent hours here talking about ACMOC means we, like others are concerned for it's future, it's how we engage the vast silent majority, those 98% who say nothing, that will be the challenge.
All the best
Mike

B4D2
06-16-2012, 07:50 PM
...and that it is necessary for the Directors to have to meet face to face on a monthly basis...


...All Board meetings are confrence calls...I noted that George had said for the Annual meeting that is face to face Hudson was not expected to fly over for it , but was involved Via phone...

Spot on Ian. We usually meet via teleconference once a month. This April/May was our first face to face meeting in a few years. Previously, the annual face to face was suspended a few years ago in an attempt to economize.

chriscokid
06-17-2012, 07:24 AM
Not sure how accurate these numbers are but they came from the members list I have access to.


Members Numbers:

Australia 101
United States 2107
Canada 137
United Kingdom 37
Netherlands 11

biggastractor
06-17-2012, 08:11 AM
Ladies, Gentlemen,

One of the reasons our minutes are of any length is that people writing them are interested in History. That should come as no surprise as we are collecting or interested in historical pieces of equipment/machinery. Another person could simply write the motion,second and vote and be done, but... that doesn't explain the "why" or the "context" of the issue. Knowing that history is helpful.

If you wonder what the membership wants or where the club is headed, please read the mission statement on the front page of our website:
ACMOC was established to assist and educate its members, and the general public, to appreciate the historic role of Caterpillar® machinery in shaping the world. We promote the collection, preservation, restoration, display and study of products and memorabilia of Caterpillar and its related predecessors.
-Adopted March 2007
This governs the board of directors and our club.

Finally, there are many challenges to operating a club with members strung across all points of the globe. One of those challenges is communications. Our magazine is that communication for all our members. A current board member may have better numbers but I think about 25-30% of our club members use this bulletin board. And of those people that use this bulletin board a large number are not dues paying members of ACMOC.

Being an ACMOC board member is again an interesting and rewarding job. I encourage folks to find out more and send nominations to Willie.

Good Luck

Biggastractor

tw
06-17-2012, 10:13 AM
Some years ago. I offered my help asking if the committee that handles insurance needs any help. I was told they had enough people. As this is what I do for a living. I thought I might be able to help. Also I have been contact several times by the underwriters for ACMOC's insurance at that time on issues with local clubs.

I like the idea for a question area on the web site. I think possibly a Long Term Planning Committee for the 5,10,15 years out items. I do not think it should be chaired by a director or officer, but could have a director or officer on it.

Just my two cents

Willie did you get my paperwork as I e-mailed it to the office the other day.

Terry Welch

Mike Meyer
06-17-2012, 05:21 PM
Not sure how accurate these numbers are but they came from the members list I have access to.


Members Numbers:

Australia 101
United States 2107
Canada 137
United Kingdom 37
Netherlands 11

Looks like about 2,400 Financial ACMOC Members at a rough count, and maybe what, another 2,000 plus non Financial Members who just use the Forum, or are signed up to the Forum but don't use it? thanks Eric. OK Eric, you move around the USA attending Shows and Auctions a bit it appears, and no doubt talk to big collectors regularly, my next question is this, how many of the major collectors that you know in North America (both the U.S.A. and Canada) regularly (ie at least monthly) use this ACMOC Forum to either read, or post on, because I know here in Australia most major collectors who are ACMOC Financial Members don't ever read the Forum and the few that do, don't ever say a word. It seems maybe many of the folks doing the talking here on the Forum are possibly not the owners of the larger collections in North America, like in excess of 30 or 40 crawlers in their private possession, is that correct do you think, because there are a lot of large collections in North America isn't there, far more than Australia, New Zealand and the United Kingdom combined?

What I'm trying to clarify is how best to communicate, and seek feedback about the future of this ACMOC Club from the very people who count, the ACMOC Financial Members, as distinct from those who are simply non Financial Members of the Forum and who contribute nothing financially or personally to aid the running of this Club, because I am nearly 100% certain that if you want to talk to the bigger crawler owners and restorers internationally on a regular basis, i.e fortnightly or even monthly, and seek their opinion, then this Forum is not the best way to do it because they do not use it. It also appears the vast majority of ACMOC Financial Members in the U.S.A. are not members of a local ACMOC Chapter either, if we assume an American Chapter might have 20- 30 members on average including partners or family members, and there's what, 13 or 14 Chapters in the U.S.A, on a best case scenario you might regularly reach about 450 ACMOC Financial Members, out of 2,107 currently paying membership and living in the USA, only about 25% of our American members?

So how do the ACMOC Directors best seek feedback and guidance from the vast silent majority of this Club who never use this Forum and who are not members of a local Chapter, and engage them in this Club, so it's not so hard to find good folks to stand for election on the BOD in the U.S.A., because I suspect about 90% of the regular talking done here on this Forum about saving old crawlers, as distinct from selling them or their parts in the "For Sale" section, is done by about only 30 or 40 people, only about 1% of our Financial Members. If the goals of ACMOC are to ensure the preservation of old Caterpillars, Holts and Bests, then we need to better engage with the folks who own those thousands of old tractors, the families with 20, 50, 80, 150 or more crawlers in their private collections who we never see or hear on this Forum, as distinct from someone with simply a laptop computer and a love of chatting on internet Forums 24/7. What I'm alluding to is the problem of the tail wagging the dog, a minority dominating the majority, and I hope that never becomes a issue here, because I'm into saving old Cats, not simply collecting toys of them, and I reckon 99% of the other Financial Members are the same.

I'm also hoping Tom Madden, or another of our members who is a Lawyer, can clarify here what the legal issues are for anyone thinking of running for a position on the BOD of ACMOC, because when things go pear shaped in the USA even in a minor way, there are often nasty, time consuming and expensive consequences for those not properly insured or indemnified, as everyone in the USA knows already, but many international members may not be aware.
regards
Mike

chriscokid
06-17-2012, 07:17 PM
Mike,
I am not sure the true numbers but my guess is only 25% of the 3000+/- ACMOC members have and use computers.
And it is my guess that most users (75%) of the BB only look at the bb and do not participate actively in the threads.

We have discussed in the past to have a icon showing who is a an ACMOC supporter and who is not (similar to what ACME does).
This may encourage non ACMOC members who are BB users to become supporters.

To answer your question about the best way to communicate: The best way is in person, like at shows or meetings, but this does not reach the majority.
the second best way is to send out a mailing to all members but we are lucky to get 50% to give feedback. and the third is publishing in the magazine.

One Goal that the ACMOC Bod agrees on is to get back to focusing on chapters, chapters are the face of ACMOC. The chapters spread the word of ACMOC on a local and state level.
Chapters also are ACMOC's greatest tool, in following thru with our mission statement.

So far the chapters committee has help create 5 new chapters, reorganize 2 chapters and is working on at least two more additional chapters worldwide.
I for one created chapter 12 to cover a very large region with the hopes of gathering people together from many different states. My hope is that chapter 12 will be broken up into at least 3 more chapters: SC, VA, and East TN.

Many chapters have said that if a core group of members can be formed most of which are within 100 miles of each other become very active, which makes the chapter more "alive".


So in respect the BB is not the best tool to reach all members because the lack of usage from the total membership. The BB is however a great tool to bounce ideas around in a positive manner.
It offers a cheap way to communicate and a great resource for any collector.

I have and never will know everything there is to know about caterpillars but i have used the help from many bb users to solve several problems that i have encountered.

I also think that ACMOC could use more volunteers to help participate on a committee level. Many of our members are willing to help we just need to provide an avenue for them to apply their talents.

So if anyone has a particular interest in any level of club business then please contact any one of the directors. We would be more than happy to get you involved.

gauntjoh
06-18-2012, 04:35 AM
Not sure how accurate these numbers are but they came from the members list I have access to.
Members Numbers:

Australia 101
United States 2107
Canada 137
United Kingdom 37
Netherlands 11

I have been a non "financial" member of ACMOC since the end of 2009 when the unprecedented action by the BoD at that time of decertifying Chapter 2 took place, although before that I was a fully paid up member over many years and a committee member of Chapter 2 and I did (unsuccessfully) run to be a BoD member.
I am disappointed for the club (although not at all surprised) to see that ACMOC UK membership is currently around 37. Prior to end 2009 it was around 300. I think there are many lessons to be learned from this unfortunate episode.
We were very fortunate in being able to keep together the vast majority of the 'family' of Cat enthusiasts in the UK.
I personally feel that since the inception of becoming a Cat Licensee and focusing on making models, the club has had a very difficult balance between on the one hand running an enthusiast's club and on the other a business or commercial enterprise. It was clear to many that the fixed costs of the club (people and premises) could only be met by a successful models business.
These two aims (enthusiasts club and Licensee business) are often mutually exclusive, and for sure require very different skills. A commercial enterprise can only be successfully run by people with the necessary experience and skills for that type of business. This is not always consistent with people drawn from the ranks of enthusiasts into 'management' positions, especially where they have to be 'persuaded' or coerced.
Perhaps it should be considered in the future to either drop the model making business completely and focus on running a club of enthusiasts or having in effect two separate entities, one focusing on running a members club and the other the Cat licensee business, with separate objectives, accounts etc. and most importantly different management teams.

Somewhere in this thread the ACMOC mission is stated......
ACMOC was established to assist and educate its members, and the general public, to appreciate the historic role of Caterpillar® machinery in shaping the world. We promote the collection, preservation, restoration, display and study of products and memorabilia of Caterpillar and its related predecessors.
-Adopted March 2007

......maybe It is implied, but I don't see anything in there about making models or running a commercial enterprise.

Just my 2 pence worth

John Gaunt.

chriscokid
06-18-2012, 07:54 AM
John,

Since the amount of the current membership just barely covers the cost of the magazine, (which by the way is ACMOC biggest asset to its members) something had to be sold to make profit to support any other service that ACMOC wanted to provide its members. Like this BB and website, it cost nothing for you to use but it cost a great deal to operate and manage. Now that the models do not sell that quickly, We are working on many other things than models to provide to the cat collecting world.

Also we all know that 37 acmoc members is not the same as 300 that chapter 2 did have but that is the past and we have taken many steps to get things moving in a positive direction.
So... 37 is a very welcomed step in that direction and I am sure that the newly reformed Chapter 2 has lots of good things to come.

Tom Madden
06-18-2012, 01:32 PM
Mike:

I would not serve on any Board, non-profit or otherwise, without first reviewing and approving the Directors and Officers Insurance. I recall from earlier conversations with GWH that ACMOC does in fact have in place a policy to insure the directors and officers. The policy should at a minimum have 1,000,000/2,000,000 coverage plus defense coverage.

We just went through this exercise with a non-profit here locally and put in place the above coverages with a 4 million umbrella on the D and O and the CGL policy. The broker and underwriters all said they have never seen a judgement against the Directors and Officers of a non-profit that approached 1 million for what that is worth.

Mike Meyer
06-18-2012, 04:14 PM
Mike:

I would not serve on any Board, non-profit or otherwise, without first reviewing and approving the Directors and Officers Insurance. I recall from earlier conversations with GWH that ACMOC does in fact have in place a policy to insure the directors and officers. The policy should at a minimum have 1,000,000/2,000,000 coverage plus defense coverage.

We just went through this exercise with a non-profit here locally and put in place the above coverages with a 4 million umbrella on the D and O and the CGL policy. The broker and underwriters all said they have never seen a judgement against the Directors and Officers of a non-profit that approached 1 million for what that is worth.

Hopefully one of the Directors or GWH can clarify what level of coverage ACMOC currently has, thanks for responding.
regards
Mike

Mike Meyer
06-18-2012, 07:10 PM
Just looking through my May - June ACMOC magazine I notice there are 9 Directors on the Board at any one time, or have I got it wrong again? Do we need 9 Directors, because that does seem like a lot of folks putting in the hard yards on a almost daily basis for what is a non profit group, I mean a lot of private enterprise companies only have 7 at the most, it must take 90 minutes each meeting just for our Directors all to say hi and give a brief overview of their lives the past month, as we do in civilised meetings.:lol:

If it is so hard to attract new Directors can we consider reducing the number to say 7, or even 5, but ensure those Directorships are skills based, such as the Board must have one good Lawyer, one good Finance person, one good Marketing person, one International Director, and an Executive Director who is the Manager of the ACMOC Office, a pre requisite being the non Executive Directors should ideally own antique crawlers, or manage companies, Trusts or Corporations that do, because I believe only those of us who actually have or are restoring old crawlers really understand the actual costs in both time and money, and the dedication required, and often the sacrifices made by our families, and unless I'm mistaken ACMOC was founded by a bunch of folks who did just that, bought old crawlers to save.
regards
Mike

ianoz
06-18-2012, 07:10 PM
Well , After reading Hudsons reply It confirms the reasons I had given earlier for my decission not to stand For Board of Directors . I have a small earthmoving Business , My office is the seat of a Truck ,excavator or track loader .I can not stop in the middle of a job to go and take part in a Board meeting or commitee meeting .
The ACMOC club does face some difficult decissions.
My view is really there is two reasons to be an ACMOC club Member
First reason is what the club started on Collectors and restores of CAt machinery having a network to help with finding parts and Advise on restoring machines .
. The other reason is to be apart of the Model collection Which to club embarked to as a way of raising money for the club .
Now we have had a call to have a fresh approach to the direction the club .
The way i see it Which ever direction the club decides to go will upset members .
As John Gaunt said The ACMOC clubs decisson to remove The UK Chapter saw 300 members lost .

. Now the restorers want parts . The model collectors Want Models .,So the direction the club takes is going to result in members looking at the diecissions made by the board , and staying with the club , Or leaving as the club is not what their interest is about .
The Directors have vey difficult diecissons to make .
I for one don't envy them .

Mike Meyer
06-18-2012, 07:15 PM
Well , After reading Hudsons reply It confirms the reasons I had given earlier for my decission not to stand For Board of Directors . I have a small earthmoving Business , My office is the seat of a Truck ,excavator or track loader .I can not stop in the middle of a job to go and take part in a Board meeting or commitee meeting .
The ACMOC club does face some difficult decissions.
My view is really there is two reasons to be an ACMOC club Member
First reason is what the club started on Collectors and restores of CAt machinery having a network to help with finding parts and Advise on restoring machines .
. The other reason is to be apart of the Model collection Which to club embarked to as a way of raising money for the club .
Now we have had a call to have a fresh approach to the direction the club .
The way i see it Which ever direction the club decides to go will upset members .
As John Gaunt said The ACMOC clubs decisson to remove The UK Chapter saw 300 members lost .

. Now the restorers want parts . The model collectors Want Models .,So the direction the club takes is going to result in members looking at the diecissions made by the board , and staying with the club , Or leaving as the club is not what their interest is about .
The Directors have vey difficult diecissons to make .
I for one don't envy them .

Hi Ianoz, Sorry to hear you are unable to throw your "hat in the ring", but understand completely, hopefully John Gaunt or another suitably qualified Member steps up to the plate, because at this stage the time commitment appears significant.
regards
Mike

ianoz
06-18-2012, 07:53 PM
Mike , John can no longer nominate, as he said he no longer is a current ACMOC member .
Which was why I raised Deas Plants profile saying he was not a Member of ACMOC .With his retiremement I would have thought he would be able to give the time as a director seeing how he did stand previously . He gave his reasons for not standing ,which unfortunately was deleted with Georges clean up of the thread .
It seems by my posts remaining , George as Moderator Did what he thought best for the Club .

gwhdiesel75
06-18-2012, 09:14 PM
Ianoz, Deas is retiring and then living on the road, travelling and living full-time in an RV (recreational vehicle). It is impractical under those circumstances to receive mail on a regular basis, etc. GWH

ianoz
06-18-2012, 09:48 PM
Yes George , I had read that ,,I just thought with the amount Deas had put into the club , once he lost the schackles of full time employment, he would be in a better position Time wise to do justice to a directors position .
While I don't aggree with Some of Deas views ,I hope one day as he wanders around the country side ,to meet him in person .

Deas Plant.
06-19-2012, 05:19 AM
Hi, GWH.
Thank you for your post about my retirement plans. What I have not mentioned before is that in the intervening two years since I nominated for the BoD, I have also become somewhat more involved with another couple of passions of mine, various forms of alternative healing, acupressure, kinesiology, etc., and teaching personal development, including doing a bit of motivational speaking. I was even invited to give a talk at Auburn, Ca., when I was over there in June-July, 2010. The only date that I could manage was July 4. They had a speaker booked for that date but cleared it so that I could do the talk. And nobody shot at me as I walked out the door afterwards either.

IanOz, I don't always agree with your views either but I will make an effort to look you up if I am up your way.

Cat-astrophe
06-19-2012, 06:33 AM
Hello,

Where are the movivated 2100 USA based members that Erik has provided the stats on to become a BoD member??
Do you guys have a culture of "reading between the lines" if so please re-read my post pg3 of this thread. Otherwise do i need to take adverts on CNN or Fox??

Where is the democracy when the BoD appoint people to fill vacancies?? This practice should stop immediately. It is un-democratic. A vacancy should go to a by-election. Not being someone chosen from the BoD panel of candiates. At least i can profess to be the next "under poller" from the elction when Lee Sorbel resigned.

Hudson

Cat-astrophe
06-19-2012, 06:52 AM
Hello Again!

Let me go a step further having re -read other posts in this tread such as Tom Madden's.

I encouraged any future BoD member to ensure that they do due diligence on the organisation, so that they have a full appreciation of their obligations and respomsibilities including insurance. i thought that i artculated this in my earlier post but sadly the nuances once again may have been lost. For the sake of clarity I would say this to any member seeking BoD Appointment they should satisfy themselves with a though and planned due diligence.

Hudson Biggs

Mike Meyer
06-19-2012, 03:43 PM
Hello Hudson, thanks for your comments, how does someone living in New Zealand, Australia or the United Kingdom working full time as a Farmer, or Accountant, or Excavator Owner Operator get a Lawyer to run Due Diligence on ACMOC if they were thinking of running for the position of International Director on the BOD? Surely this analysis has already been performed by other Lawyers at significant cost in the USA and a updated summation could be made available at no cost to candidates, or do I need to pay my Lawyers in California a couple of thousand dollars to perform that task? Or do we ask our Directors just to "fly by the seat of their pants" hoping, and assuming, there are currently no legal liabilities or financial issues hanging over ACMOC, and if there are, or ever will be, that the unknown quantity of Directors Indemnity Insurance will cover them, this is unprofessional, naive, and dangerous. This is a Volunteer position representing thousands of Financial, and non Financial Members, involving a hundred or more hours a month, and on top of that, we ask them to conduct their own due diligence at their own out of pocket expense in a foreign country?? This is not how friends treat each other, and this is not how ACMOC should, ACMOC is a 365 days a year Corporation now, not a once a year Boy Scout car wash fund raiser on a Saturday morning in the High School parking lot.

We have many good Lawyers here on ACMOC including Tom Madden, I would hope that any person seeking election to the BOD would have made available to them at no cost a legal review of the obligations and potential liabilities of being a Director of ACMOC in language a non Lawyer like me can understand, I mean it's not like we never change Directors is it, or that ACMOC is still just 5 or 6 guys meeting in a corner coffee shop. I would like to hear more from those on the BOD about this matter, because I assume the 9 of you performed, or had performed by a qualified Lawyer, a Due Diligence on ACMOC before signing onto the BOD? As you Americans know only too well, you never need a Lawyer or Insurance while everything is small, and friendly and successful, but the moment someone get's hurt at a ACMOC sponsored event, or fired, or disenfranchised, or financially harmed, look out, you can't have too many Lawyers, or too much Indemnity Insurance. ACMOC is a Corporation seeking to sell products for a profit, and employ staff, and run or be associated with large Public Events using heavy, old, potentially dangerous machinery in the hands of folks often with limited or no experience or training, and still have a Board of 9 good people carry the can should something go wrong. The buck always stops somewhere, and usually it's at the top and at the feet of those with the deepest pockets, or the most money.

The fact that both you and Tom Madden warn us that any potential BOD candidate needs to perform their own Due Diligence should be a warning bell heard by everyone thinking of running now or in the future, and the entire ACMOC family needs to be pro-active in ensuring our elected Officials, or those thinking of running for elected office, are fully informed at no cost about their potential liabilities and obligations. I'd like to see this Due Diligence information posted in the Members area of the Forum, but also sent out in written form as an attachment to the nomination form for the vast majority of our Financial Members who are not Forum users to review. We must ensure our elected Officials are properly indemnified and insured, and that those of us not American citizens or familiar with the American legal system, are better informed.
Sincerely
Mike

Cat-astrophe
06-20-2012, 05:56 AM
Hello Mike

You don't need to be a lawyer to do "due diligence". Due diligence is the concept of making proper enquiry to satisfy yourself that you understand the risks and responsibilities of the position that you are accepting. That the organisation has appropriate internal controls, safety plans, financial reporting, level of planning, employment contracts, supplier contracts, insurance, taxes, time commitment, contract obligations, to name but a few.

The alternative is to blindly accept a position (often thru election), when you have no idea in respect of any of the above matters, that upon the announcement of an election result, you suddenly have a governance role liability in an organisation that you know very little about.

My comments above are intended generally, and not ACMOC specically. If there is a specific element it is in respect to a potential replacement Intl Director, as they have the added complication of having to understand State and Federal systems in which the club operates. Yes there are other officers such as the Treasurer who will advise on that, but you still have a governance responsibility. Would you be able to demonstrate that your governance enquiry on a BoD decision met the test of a prudent person?

Everyone is different. These issues may not concern some people as we all have different apetites for risk, different standards of performance expectation. Thats fine, but this not a "little league baseball team" that you are stepping forward to manage. Go in with your eyes open and enjoy the prospect of assisting develop the hobby we all share.

Hudson

Mike Meyer
06-20-2012, 06:38 AM
Hello Mike

You don't need to be a lawyer to do "due diligence". Due diligence is the concept of making proper enquiry to satisfy yourself that you understand the risks and responsibilities of the position that you are accepting. That the organisation has appropriate internal controls, safety plans, financial reporting, level of planning, employment contracts, supplier contracts, insurance, taxes, time commitment, contract obligations, to name but a few.

The alternative is to blindly accept a position (often thru election), when you have no idea in respect of any of the above matters, that upon the announcement of an election result, you suddenly have a governance role liability in an organisation that you know very little about.

My comments above are intended generally, and not ACMOC specically. If there is a specific element it is in respect to a potential replacement Intl Director, as they have the added complication of having to understand State and Federal systems in which the club operates. Yes there are other officers such as the Treasurer who will advise on that, but you still have a governance responsibility. Would you be able to demonstrate that your governance enquiry on a BoD decision met the test of a prudent person?

Everyone is different. These issues may not concern some people as we all have different apetites for risk, different standards of performance expectation. Thats fine, but this not a "little league baseball team" that you are stepping forward to manage. Go in with your eyes open and enjoy the prospect of assisting develop the hobby we all share.

Hudson

I'm not a Lawyer, or a expert on the U.S. legal system, however after living there and still being a partner in a farming business there that has been trading for 25 years in California, I know only a fool would not seek out a good Lawyer in the U.S.A. to perform Due Diligence on a project like this even though it is a voluntary position, simply because of the scale of the organisation and that it is being run as a profit earning business, and I believe all nominees for the BOD need be made aware of their potential liabilities, and the level of protection afforded by any ACMOC Indemnity Insurance Policies, and that is why I am raising it here. I don't deliberately or knowingly put people in harms way, and that includes financially, and I expect the same from anyone I associate with through ACMOC.

I agree with what Glen says below, I served as Secretary for the King City Young Farmers for 6 years and we raised about $100,000 a year cooking BBQ's up and down the Salinas Valley, and I don't recall anyone ever mentioning insurance yet we served fresh cooked food weekly to often thousands of people, like at the annual Salinas Rodeo, without ever once discussing liability or indemnity insurance because we trusted each other to back us up other if things went pear shaped, but that was in a small farming community of just 10,000 folks, not a international organisation like ACMOC.
regards
Mike

7upuller
06-20-2012, 09:05 AM
Hey Gang,

I know some people that vowed never to be on a Board as the feel threatened by risk. They feel that the never is enough insurance to cover the protection needed. I know other very smart and intelligent people that understand that there is protection and step up to the plate and serve. I am sure GWH did his due diligence, when he served as a Board Member. Many smart people have made comments that the rewards are the people met and networks that happen, from the hours donated. I know some donate many hours, some get the tasks done with less hours, and some don't commit themselves to as many committies as others. It is all about what you put into life. I also know some people that can talk themselves out of anything in life and do not much anything.

Mike Meyer
06-20-2012, 03:37 PM
Hey Gang,

I know some people that vowed never to be on a Board as the feel threatened by risk. They feel that the never is enough insurance to cover the protection needed. I know other very smart and intelligent people that understand that there is protection and step up to the plate and serve. I am sure GWH did his due diligence, when he served as a Board Member. Many smart people have made comments that the rewards are the people met and networks that happen, from the hours donated. I know some donate many hours, some get the tasks done with less hours, and some don't commit themselves to as many committies as others. It is all about what you put into life. I also know some people that can talk themselves out of anything in life and do not much anything.

Hi Glen, I'm sure both you and I would trust GWH or Tom Madden to give us a solid overview of any legal issues or potential liabilities facing incoming Directors, and Tom has told us that in his professional and expert opinion we should seek out good legal advice, or as Hudson suggests, possibly do our own Due Diligence from 8,000 miles away, but what's your opinion on reducing the Board size to just 7 Directors, or even 5 Directors, if we can find more volunteers to help run the various committees. I reckon if the official monthly work load of a Director on the BOD could be reduced to just 20 hours a month, instead of the current 20 hours a week, we might have more luck getting good folks to nominate, or am I barking up the wrong tree again? Somehow we need to find a better way to talk to the vast majority of our Financial members who do not use this Forum, because I reckon there lies the solution to this problem of finding more good volunteers, and getting good skilled folks to help out.
regards
Mike

tw
06-20-2012, 06:23 PM
Mike I kind of disagree with you on the size of the BOD and work load. I just came off a Board that had 11 members and some members wanted to make it 7. The hidden agenda was to pack the board so they they could run everything. With 9 members you get a chance of more different opinions. I would think that it would also take a By-Law change to change the size of the Board. I have been a few of these and most the time it did nothing for the better. I have never seen ACMOC's By-Laws and hope to. I do not know when they have been revised last. I think with 9 Directors and more non BOD members chairing and on committees the work load would drop.

Mike I think you have a lot of concern what happens to the club and a lot of good ideas.
Ever get your 35 pony motor?
Just my opinion
Terry Welch

Mike Meyer
06-20-2012, 08:08 PM
Mike I kind of disagree with you on the size of the BOD and work load. I just came off a Board that had 11 members and some members wanted to make it 7. The hidden agenda was to pack the board so they they could run everything. With 9 members you get a chance of more different opinions. I would think that it would also take a By-Law change to change the size of the Board. I have been a few of these and most the time it did nothing for the better. I have never seen ACMOC's By-Laws and hope to. I do not know when they have been revised last. I think with 9 Directors and more non BOD members chairing and on committees the work load would drop.

Mike I think you have a lot of concern what happens to the club and a lot of good ideas.
Ever get your 35 pony motor?
Just my opinion
Terry Welch

Hi Terry, thanks for your comment and I fully understand your concerns, I'd hate to think our Board could be "stacked" with factions or favorites in 2012 with fewer Directors, but as they say, "too many cooks do spoil the broth" and I'm wondering aloud here for other successful Private Enterprise Business experts like yourself to comment on, if 7 good skills based Directors as I suggested in a earlier post could be a positive goal over the next few years, such as a good Ag. Lawyer, a good Ag. Accountant like our current star Peter Bloom, a good Ag. Marketing person whose used to dealing with Cat. machinery and ornery farmers and Contractors, plus the ACMOC Office Manager because they are the critical profit center of our "business" and that key person must be on the Board in my opinion, and a person ideally with a proven record of owning and or running a Cat. related business or Dealership successfully, to act as BOD President, then add one International Director to appease idiots like me, plus a Director who is a major U.S antique Cat. collection owner. I wonder Terry, could they get the job done for our Financial Members in a more time efficient and profitable manner provided, and I stress here that key word PROVIDED, more good volunteers stepped up to support them on a regular basis, and this is not a negative comment on the fantastic Directors we currently have who are doing their best, I'm just trying to ease their workload and make it easier to attract new Directors.

Unless I'm mistaken we are talking about a Corporation here called ACMOC selling Cat. related products and services ideally for a profit, predominantly around the U.S.A with a Gross Income of around $418,000 last Financial Year, and a Gross Profit of $125,000, and yet produced a net Loss of $57,360 if I read Peter Blooms Treasurers Report correctly, and if I'm correct that tell's me the Business Plan and budget projections historically adopted by our BOD are not operating as expected, and we are assuming/ hoping the big dollars currently tied up in toy models will translate into black ink on the Ledger, profit, unlike the red ink we are currently seeing. If ACMOC was your Company after looking at the Treasurers Report I'd assume you would leave no stone un-turned to lean it down to reduce overheads and unnecessary spending, or else you might be potentially trading while insolvent within 24 months if the budgeted model sales don't eventuate. I know the existing Directors are working hard to address these financial issues and I sincerely thank them, and I'm not trying to dismantle what has seemingly worked OK pre the GFC of 2008, I'm just suggesting that the ACMOC Board mirror what is normal practice for other Private Enterprise companies that I see trading privately or on the Stock Exchange with Annual Turnovers of say $US100,000,000 or more and we reduce Board numbers slightly and we fight harder to get the profit driven skills on there to reinforce the great team we currently have, as Directors retire or "Term Out".

It has me worried that it appears almost impossible to find 3 candidates right now and we will go through this drama every election, hence this long winded thread, and nominations closed supposedly on June 15th and "Willie" has yet to announce how many he received, but hopefully 5 or 6 good folks in the U.S.A have stepped up yourself included, after taking both Hudson Biggs, and Tom Maddens sensible advice of course, and performing Due Diligence first, but to my pea sized brain there only seems to be a small handful of folks discussing this critical issue on the Forum and the problem will not go away.

About the D35 pilot motor, no, I haven't found one yet, seems most spare parts type Cats are being crushed in the USA right now and sent to China.
regards
Mike

gary ca
06-21-2012, 08:38 PM
I have been reading this thread as a relative new member and I was not around when the forum was started. Could somebody enlighted me with the original reasoning why it is structured so that most of the users do not pay to support it?

This current business model is what killed a lot of dot coms over a decade ago. Put together a great product but let people use it for free. People are using this forums not only to promote the Cat heritage but also for commercial self interest. A modest fee to access the wealth of information and resources of this forum seems fair and reasonable. G

7upuller
06-21-2012, 11:13 PM
Hey Gary,

I agree, good Idea. What do you think would be a fair fee, how about $30 a year?-glen

gary ca
06-21-2012, 11:39 PM
Glen,

I think $30/year is a good start. Before we get into this fee thing too deep, I would like to hear the arguments on why it is structured the way it is.

There are many ways a fee could be structured: yearly, quarterly, monthly etc. Could be a onetime $5 fee for a non-member who wants to list something for sale.

I once used a web site that specialized in Ford products. They had a link to "Ask a Mechanic." You could ask a question and get a quick reply back. They asked for a fee based on the value of the reply. You could pay them nothing or whatever you thought was fair. Their reply saved me a service call and I sent them $15. G

7upuller
06-21-2012, 11:54 PM
Gary,

NOW you've done it, Old Magnet and all the other greats, are going to start charging for their answers, LOL. Just joking, seriously though, I do agree. With the finacial hardships our club has to keep cutting staff, taking on more donated time to make ends meet, a fair annual fee for BB access is warranted. I sure read alot of posts going back and forth about who's paid and who's not. The BB costs the club alot of money to keep it going. I think the BB yearly costs should be analized, divided by the user's, and break even, no-profit, no-loss. That's fair. New user's can sign in for two weeks, or maybe a month trial period, then pay your way.

Just my $.02(but I'm willing to make it $30)-glen

D4Jim
06-22-2012, 01:44 AM
I am one of those that have received countless advice and assistance from folks on this board. Many of the ideas came from non members so I personally am in a quandary as to what can be done to help with the finances. Sure don't want to lose anyone by arguing over the fee schedule but personally I think 7upuller's proposal needs to be looked at. Of course another alternative is to sell advertising and let us all wind our way through the ads to leave or read a post.

Many of us have been so used to getting by "free" on the net that we are taken aback when someone charges us for looking in.

Now that I have come full circle and confused myself I will drift off and watch. :wave:

B4D2
06-22-2012, 07:47 AM
The thought of funding the forum through fee based access has been considered on several occasions by several different boards. Each time the conclusion was that the benefits the bulletin board provides was worth the money spent, even taking into account those that use it free of charge. There are many Cat collectors who are not paid members of ACMOC who frequent the forum and provide support to the other users. Many users feel that because they have "registered" they are "members." Perhaps a fee based access should be considered but think of this: how many websites do you visit that are essentially free? I would hate to restrict access to one of our most valuable advertising assets that this board has become. I would like to hear what others have to say.

biggastractor
06-22-2012, 07:50 AM
One of the reasons that there has not been a charge up to this time is that this BB was a great tool for the office staff. If someone called into the ACMOC office with a technical question the staff always directed them to the website. It made better use of the staff's time and hopefully those people would then see all the benefits of the club and join up. In other words it was, in part, a sales tool. It probably is a pretty good one too.

There have been discussions before about charging for the use of the BB. Many others BB's do. Some have layers of participation with a non paying guest status and then a paying participant status.

Good Discussion and probably no black and white answers.

Biggastractor

ronm
06-22-2012, 08:24 AM
A "fee" is the wrong approach-this site: www.smokstak.com, the best site on the whole web in my opinion, periodically asks for "donations" to help with expenses...nothing coercive or mandatory...this is also the way our club approaches admission at the 2 shows we have...donation boxes are placed in various spots around the show grounds, with a sign "Your donation helps keep this show free"...no admission fee is charged, & the donation boxes always have as much or more based on a crowd estimate, than if admission was charged. There's just something about being ASKED to help out with expenses that makes people feel more generous, as opposed to "Pay up or you can't get in"...lot of people will walk away...
Just some thoughts, fueled by some strong coffee this morning...

7upuller
06-22-2012, 08:35 AM
Hey BigGasTractor,

The Black and White answer, is just Red or Black! I wonder if the board did a poll, what the results would be. I wonder how the paying members would respond, compaired to non-paying members? I would suspect that the paying members wouldn't have a problem with carrying their fair share, but the non-paying would complain that it wouldn't be fair for them to contribute. Maybe by charging, it would filter out whining.-glen

ronm
06-22-2012, 09:31 AM
Hmmmm...just sittin' here trying to decide if I've just been called a whiner, for expressing an opinion, & I decided...close enough...truth be told, I've always felt a little guilty for using this BB as a non-member of ACMOC. The reason being, the name ACM OWNERS CLUB doesn't really apply to me technically, the one crawler I own being of the "red" persuasion...I aspire to own a CAT someday, I've worked on them, run them, & liked them all my life...just never owned one yet...& not rich enough to just go out & buy as many as I want, like some of the ruling members of the clique here...
So, bottom line, it's time to be out of here-I'm deleting this site from my bookmarks, it has been fun, but being a second-class citizen hasn't ever really sat that well, & haven't been able to make that much of a contribution anyway...not to mention the politics is getting a little tiresome...one reason against ever joining ACMOC...tooo much BS & politics...
See ya around, guys...I'm outa here...

7upuller
06-22-2012, 09:41 AM
Hey Ronm,

My remarks about whiners was not directed to you. Don't know if your a paying member or not. I have read many of threads and posts about who's a paying member or not. I have read many posts where posting authors complain and whin. When I was replying to BigGasTractor's post, you had replied. By the time I posted, I hadn't even seen your reply. It wasn't aimed at you are anyone specifically, just a general comment.-glen

ianoz
06-22-2012, 12:09 PM
All the forums I am on are free to use ..Some Use Banner ads to help off set the cost of running the forum . Simple, Click on and view the AD , ,and the forum gets paid .. I am a ACME supporter ,Joe Black runs ACME ,without any Club support .
I joined the ACMOC club when I joined the forum in 2009 .. I have bought models to support the club , And i own old caterpillar crawlers .
My view is it is madness to think of charging to use the forum .A lot of retired people use the forum to get help and Give help. Young people that we need to encourage to have interest in old machines . Then there is a lot of average everyday people doing it tough .
Charge them all $30 to be on the forum , I would imagine you would lose 50% of the forum . As we have already seen ,some will leave out of principle .

Mike Meyer
06-22-2012, 05:04 PM
I think it is important we keep general access to the Forum free because it helps so many people save old Cats and attracts newer enthusiasts, whether it be a Grandson or widow posting for the first time trying to sell Granddads old Cat after he died, or folks on a limited budget thinking about, or actually buying their first tractor who might over time find the funds to evolve into a Financial Member, and the Magazine is the key there. What is important and I've said this before, is that those people running a business through this Forum 7 days a week, and we all know who they are, or were, that those folks pay accordingly. I assume you can't advertise free on Craigs List, or the Western Antique Iron Trader, and nor should you here, I suggest every non Financial Forum member get one free advert a year to either buy or sell Cats or parts, after that you start paying a set fee, if you are a Financial Member of ACMOC you get say 5 free adverts a year, and folks who we know to be running their Cat. business through this Forum be asked to pay an appropriate amount, whether that be a regular 1/4 or 1/2 page advert in the magazine, or a "Gold Sponsor", or "Silver Sponsor" category be created. I read in the May magazine that the BOD were investigating different types of membership at their 3 day meeting in Peoria, including a "Corporate" type, and I look forward to hearing the outcome.

I also believe it is critical we are able to see who is a Financial Member of ACMOC when reading posts on the Forum, and who is not, just as Joe Black does over on ACME, because I'm all for First Amendment Rights, but some folks free speech carries more weight than others in my humble opinion, particularly when it is expressed by someone who has supported this Club with their hard earned cash, or, has earned the right to express their forth right opinion simply because they are a founding Member of ACMOC. Those folks in my humble opinion should get two votes to every one vote I get, simply because they did the hard yards and got this Club up and running, and I'm not very smart as you all know, but I never forget a favor or good deed done, particularly by those Senior Members of ACMOC, the Founders, and I think the first 20 founding members of ACMOC should be given Life Memberships and have their annual magazine fees waived. $600 a year in "lost" turnover it might cost us (and probably only $200 in net profit) for those good folks to receive the magazine each year, no big deal, and a small token of our genuine appreciation.

I also think we need to "Comp" a certain number of Members a Year under a "Best Buddy" or "Coaches Encouragement Award" program, maybe two or three free magazine subscriptions handed out each year by the Forum Director because do you folks notice it's always the same small number of good folks who answer 90% of the technical questions asked here on the ACMOC Forum, and that's why 90% of us are on here every day trying to learn something about how to repair our old Cats. We need to find a way to say thanks, and encourage more qualified Cat Mechanics and Technicians to help here on the Forum as questions are asked daily, the great folks like "edb", "Old Magnet", "Bob", "SJ", "Ozdozer", "Old Grump" to name a handful are the very one's we need here more to share their vast experience on older Cats, and share scans from the many printed technical books they own, because without their generous support this journey of ours saving old Cats, would grind to a standstill, I know that for a fact. Here's a true story, I once waited 4 or 5 weeks for local Cat. Dealer to give me a estimate on what it would cost for one of their Mechanics to come to my farm and split the final drives off my D2 4U, and after a month of not hearing anything I phoned my Parts guy and asked what was happening, the reply was "Oh sorry Mike, the Mechanic said he went to their Library but couldn't find a Service Book on the D2 4U, so had no idea how long it would take, that's why he never phoned you back". True story, and you folks wonder why I'm here all the time talking!!

What is pleasing to me is to see more folks talking here about this critical topic, that's why I keep rambling along here in this thread, in a attempt to keep the conversation alive so we can find a solution to some of our critical problems, or until "Willie" tells us all the seats at the BOD table are filled.
regards
Mike

Deas Plant.
06-22-2012, 07:38 PM
Hi, Folks.
First and foremost. I'm not a real gambling man but I'd have no hesitation whatsoever in betting that if it cost to post on the forums, we would lose well over half of our more or less regular posters, get almost NO newcomers or casual enquirers AND suddenly acquire a name that smelled like a six-day-dead-and-stunk-up-skunk amongst vintage machinery collectors and restorers.

Secondly, you would also deprive a LOT of un-informed people of access to what amounts to a HUGE store of knowledge and experience to be found on the BB, simply because they do not know what is available here and would baulk at paying to access something of doubtful or unknown value.

I do not own any Caterpillar machines, although I do own a few models of some of them. I still have RED blood too but that is not 'cos I don't like Cats. I have been operating Cat machinery almost continuously since I was 12 when my father bought a Cat 22 with a HAND-WINDLASS-OPERATED cable dozer for use around the family farm. I could barely crank it reaching in over the blade 'cos there wasn't room between the blade and the radiator. I have yet to find any other make with the reliability of Cat and very few with the operator friendliness of Cats. Mind you, Cat have had their 'lesser' successes too.

I come to this forum for four main reasons. They are, and in no particular order:
To learn more about Cats of any vintage.
To help others who may not have as much experience with machinery, especially earthmoving and construction machinery, as I do.
To help foster the saving, collection operation and restoration of these wonderful old machines.
To contact, meet up with and share with like-minded people around the world.

There has been what I consider to be a HUGE bonus from my time on this forum in that I have had five trips to the U.S. in about the last four years, to go to vintage machinery shows and meet up with and help people with their vintage machinery and to help put on three shows over there. That part of my ACMOC experience has been something that I did not expect to happen when I first started posting on the old BB around 12 years ago.

With all of the above, I would not hesitate to pay a fee of around $30.00 to be a MEMBER of this forum BUT, I don't think that access to posting on this forum should be dependent on being a paid-up member of the forum, any more than a person needs to be a paid-up member of ACMOC to come to an ACMOC show. As has been mentioned by others before me, this BB is a great advertising resource for the club and the 'front door' for many new club members.

The 'other' Cat forum does have a forum support membership arrangement that may be worth a look to see if it could be a working proposition here. There is also, as has been previously mentioned, the option of having paid banner advertising on the site - pay-per-click. I also think that those who make some of their living out of advertising on the BB site, be it items for sale, services offered or whatever, could be asked to contribute to the running costs of the forum, 'cos without the forum there is no site for them to post their wares.

I have no doubt that there will be both 'fors' and 'againsts' regarding any move to have the BB suport itself to whatever extent it can but there are some economic realities to consider here. Possibly the most important one is that, if something is not done pretty soon, there is a possibility that there won't be an ACMOC somewhere down the track. Hands up all those who WANT to see that.

Another possibility is that it might allow more club funds to be directed to having more staff in the office which could in turn help to lighten the load on the BoD and volunteers and help to attract more potential BoD candidates, but hopefully ones who aren't afraid of some 'hard yards'.

Just my 0.02.

chriscokid
06-22-2012, 09:42 PM
You all have brought up some really good points, most of which have already been discussed by the BOD.

Right now the BB is considered a calling card for ACMOC.
The idea is that people will use the BB, and become familiar with the club with hopes of joining of them joining.
There are over 14000 registered users for the BB, and we know not all ACMOC members use the site so there are at least 12500 non ACMOC members who use the BB.

Now you have mentioned a poll of what or if to charge for the use of the BB, so I would like to make this simple suggestion:
If you are a non ACMOC member and you have received some useful information at some point from the use of this BB, then send a donation of your choosing to the ACMOC office:


ACMOC
7501 N. University, Suite 119
Peoria, IL 61614

Or....Join the club and get a wonderful magazine as well.
http://www.acmoc.org/store/Memberships/c1/index.html?osCsid=85b1642c3623b616ec86ae9aa29a2eb7

Now on the subject of encouraging others to join the club, there will be several different options for club membership up for voting during the ACMOC membership meeting held during the national show: Family, Spouse, Youth, and Business Membership Levels
These levels if passed will allow several ways for a person to join the club. These levels will also allow more people to become part of the Chapters.
The Bylaws state that you must me a member in good standing in order to participate in club and chapter activities, so this will open the door for more people to legally participate in Chapter activities.

It is a fact that the Youth is the Key for the future of ACMOC, So what do you do?
We have a scholarship program, we hope to have a youth membership in the near future, several chapters are holding activities in local high schools (FFA etc.), so what else can we do?
How do we educate the youth and encourage them to participate in ACMOC?

I can tell you one thing it will not happen in a negative manner, we have to remain positive and professional.
You can not motivate people in a negative way and expect them to want to participate in any way.

It is like I tell my two sons: "There are no stupid questions -but there are some stupid answers","how can we learn if we do not ask questions".
So continue to bounce ideas around, and maybe we can keep the club headed in a positive direction!

ronm
06-22-2012, 10:49 PM
Just got back on to say that I recieved a PM from 7upuller, his post was in reply to a previous one to mine, mine came up while he was writing...his apology was accepted for the misunderstanding, everything's OK there...
Having said that, the rest of what I said stands, I'm outa here...for the time being, anyway.

7upuller
06-22-2012, 11:11 PM
Hey RonM,

Thank you for understanding about the timing of the previous posts. The fact that you can understand and accept an apology says alot about your values. :thumb: I also understand about the feeling of wanting to take a Time Out from all the subjects becoming too much. All the best to you.-glen

7upuller
06-22-2012, 11:30 PM
Hey Chrisco, Bruce, Rick , and all the Board Members,

Please make a sticky of Hall of Famers that contribute to the BB. Please catergourize it with diferrant levels. Platnum being $1000, Gold $500, Silver $100, and a Donor level of any size of donation there after. When a donation comes in, post it as new with a date by it. I am sending a check on Monday for a Platnum. I challenge others to do the same, any level. I suggest to the Board to use the funds to go to the Young Ones in the form of scholarship funding. This will free up some funds to use for other neccesary things that need to happen. Don't let me down, I don't think a sticky is asking too much.-glen

STEPHEN
06-23-2012, 12:00 AM
Thinking about the layout of the BB: it is possible for casual users surfing the web to access the BB without even realizing that there is a lot more information we provide, like the magazine for one. Would it be a big turn-off for non paying users to see some exposure to the greater value of being a member? Could we use the BB to be a stronger advocate for membership? Maybe we could have a sticky that would outline the contents of the current magazine,,,or something.

Mike Meyer
06-23-2012, 02:07 AM
I wonder how many of the 14,000 ACMOC Forum members have ever used their membership once after joining, or have not used it in the past 2 years? If you take a quick look through any letter of the alphabet in our 14,000 long Members List you will find the vast majority haven't been on since they joined back in 2007, or 2008 or when ever, and I wonder does it cost us more to provide computer storage space for these seemingly "dead" Forum members? If I were Marketing Manager of this company I wouldn't put much faith in those huge membership numbers translating into Financial Memberships because only .00001% regularly use this Forum we so generously provide, and I think 98% of our new Financial Members hear about us at Shows, Rally's, and by word of mouth, like I've always forwarded my ACMOC magazine onto other Cat. collectors or enthusiasts here in Australia once I've read it, folks who had never heard of ACMOC and don't own or use computers, and I know some have subsequently joined as Financial Members.

Hey 7Upuller, that's a very generous offer you are making there Glen and you could have a Cat. Scholarship named after yourself for $1,000 I'd think, and it shows you are determined to help find solutions, well done, and I appreciate it too when I see you step up and apologize, I think many of us share your passion and can get a bit caustic at times with a knee jerk post. I'm keen to hear what came out of the 3 day BOD meeting in May at Peoria about how the Directors aim to turn the ship around and get it heading in the right direction, Scholarships are a fantastic opportunity for any profitable organisation or wealthy individual to give back to their communities, but do you agree Corporations losing money need to focus their energies and limited cash resources on core money making activities if they are to demonstrate responsible leadership, like if your construction company were going broke would you spend your dwindling spare cash reserves on diesel to keep your machines and payroll checks rolling, or on Scholarships, I reckon you'd move Heaven and Earth to keep the machines rolling and payroll checks flowing, even if you didn't pull a dime yourself.

I look forward to seeing ACMOC trading with black ink on the Ledger Books for the rest of this Financial Year so we can continue that practice of providing Scholarships, right now we have lost valuable full time staff that were running our core profit making business, the ACMOC Store, and in just the first month of this year the Club lost another $7,262 after losing $57,360 in 2011, unless I'm mistaken, so hopefully the remaining 11 months of 2012 show a dramatic turnaround in our fortunes or we may be raiding the Scholarship Fund to pay core liabilities, like Payroll, and Rent, and Insurance, and magazine printing, or does everyone think I'm barking up the wrong tree? I mean I'm a Private Enterprise guy who inherited nothing from my folks except their love, respect, and the desire to pay my own way in life with my own hard work without free handouts, so maybe that puts me at odds with some others here, but I'd suggest not the vast majority of Financial Members, because I reckon they are just like me and you, and that's why we lay out the hard earned green stuff to support this Club, unlike the vast majority of our Members.
regards
Mike

ianoz
06-23-2012, 04:52 AM
Hey Chrisco, Bruce, Rick , and all the Board Members,

Please make a sticky of Hall of Famers that contribute to the BB. Please catergourize it with diferrant levels. Platnum being $1000, Gold $500, Silver $100, and a Donor level of any size of donation there after. When a donation comes in, post it as new with a date by it. I am sending a check on Monday for a Platnum. I challenge others to do the same, any level. I suggest to the Board to use the funds to go to the Young Ones in the form of scholarship funding. This will free up some funds to use for other neccesary things that need to happen. Don't let me down, I don't think a sticky is asking too much.-glen

Good on you Glenn for putting your money where your mouth is ,But do you really think it is nessessary to have your name put up in lights to show how generous you are ? If someone can only afford to make a $20 donation they don't rate a mention .
Myself I would like to see Some sort of recognition to the past Directors of the Board .And the volunteer committee Members .These hard working people seem forgotten about .
Like many of the members struggling though hard times My name won't be on you elite donors list . So .I am a Bad member .Sorry .

Deas Plant.
06-23-2012, 07:22 AM
Hi, IanOz.
I am not speaking FOR Glen here because he is emminently capable of speaking in his own defense if he feels the need. How-wevver, I seriously doubt that he has any intention of judging anybody by their level of contributions or donations. I also seriously doubt that a person's donation or lack thereof would become a criteria for Glen's friendship or lack of it. From my experience of him, his criteria for friendship are based and who and what a person is and what they say and DO, not upon how much they can or can't afford to spend.

To me, what Glen's gesture indicates is that he has seen a need and an opportunity to contribute to easing that need and has done something about it - - - because he could. I don't believe that he would expect anybody to leave their family starving in order to make any kind of donation to anything.

Like you, I think that past - and present - BoD members and volunteer committee members deserve some recognition but I doubt that many of them took those roles on to see their names up in lights or on some honor roll somewhere. Mostly, they did it for the love of the machines and the organisation. Many had differing goals and ideals but, collectively, they have gotten the club to where it is today, a substantial group of people from all walks of life and many nations with one main connection, a LOVE of old yellow iron - - - with a couple of other older paint jobs thrown in for good measure.

To me, it is not the depth of a person's pocket or lack of it, or how many machines they may have or not have, that determines whether or not they are a good member. I don't think that material possessions or wealth or the number of machines collected or not collected ought to come into the issue. I think that the criteria for whether or not any individual is a good member can be broken down into ONE word - - - - - - - - ATTITUDE.

Just my 0.02.

7upuller
06-23-2012, 09:17 AM
Ianoz,

I don't need to open my Mouth to show everyone on the board who has more class, Your post's do all the work for me.-glen

B4D2
06-23-2012, 10:37 AM
Good on you Glenn for putting your money where your mouth is ,But do you really think it is nessessary to have your name put up in lights to show how generous you are ? If someone can only afford to make a $20 donation they don't rate a mention .
Myself I would like to see Some sort of recognition to the past Directors of the Board .And the volunteer committee Members .These hard working people seem forgotten about .
Like many of the members struggling though hard times My name won't be on you elite donors list . So .I am a Bad member .Sorry .

Ian, if I read it correctly, Glen is suggesting that anyone making a contribution be recognized, regardless of the amount. I think that anyone making a monetary contribution beyond the cost of an annual membership should receive some sort of acknowledgement. As is the case, we are a 501c3 not-for-profit, thus any donations are tax deductible. ACMOC will send a letter of thanks that can be used for the purpose of proof of donation.

Whereas I agree that the many volunteers get some much deserved recognition, some of us would rather not seek the lime-light. As directors, our contact info is listed in each issue of the magazine. As is typical, we more often field complaints but do occasionally receive kudos to be shared with the rest of the working staff (paid and volunteer). For those who are not on the board but contribute by serving on a committee, perhaps an annual list of committees and the participants should be printed in the magazine.

I do not see you as a "bad member," because you have been an active participant in these threads and I recognize you have a desire to see the club flourish. As is often the case, these threads can quickly decay due to a misinterpretation of the typed response. I would like to see this thread continue in a positive direction. Unfortunately, this exchange parallels the political process, and as we know, politics can be a volatile subject. Personally, I appreciate all the comments pro and con from all users (ACMOC members and other users) as they help to shape this media.

I would encourage the non-ACMOC member users of the bulletin board to join the club to help keep the forum active (and hopefully free). As Erik mentioned, by joining the club, you also get 6 issues of our magazine per year, so not only are you securing the future of the website, you also get something tangible in return.

Old Magnet
06-23-2012, 11:10 AM
Over the years I have heard a lot of reference to the cost of providing and supporting the Bulletin Board operation which to my understanding is a canned program. How about posting some real numbers, either on here or in the magazine or both on what the typical costs are.

Also maybe a BB membership only....skip the magazine.

Mike Meyer
06-23-2012, 06:19 PM
Over the years I have heard a lot of reference to the cost of providing and supporting the Bulletin Board operation which to my understanding is a canned program. How about posting some real numbers, either on here or in the magazine or both on what the typical costs are.

Also maybe a BB membership only....skip the magazine.

I'd like to see the real costs too, but Pete, when you say a "canned" program what does that mean, finished up, kaput? I just had a quick look at our Forum Members list and a few of the folks who have never posted once since joining, it seems we must of had thousands join ACMOC on 10-28-2010 as the vast majority I looked at just in "C" were signed up on that day. I wonder if we should just delist folks who joined the Forum more than 2 years ago and have never been a Financial Member, or visited the Forum since joining, will that be of any advantage to our core business?

I suspect we might have 14,000 Forum Members registered in our computer system, but fewer than 500 of those have ever even posted once, or visited even once on a day after their joining date, and of those 500, fewer than 100 use the Forum as a regular means of communication between fellow Members, either Financial or non Financial Members, and this Thread is a perfect example of what I'm talking about because there are what, about 10 people talking here the past 2 weeks about trying to find new Directors for a Club with 14,000 Forum Members, and 2,500 Financial Members? How do we reach our huge silent majority of Financial Members better, to engage them in the Club, and seek their opinions and expertise, is what I'm wondering aloud?
regards
Mike

Deas Plant.
06-23-2012, 06:44 PM
Hi, Folks.
Sadly, of recent times there have been some instances of harsh, derogatory or inflammatory posts in this thread, resulting in the deletion of some posts. I was sorta hoping that that behavior had come to an end but apparently it has not.

Yesterday, one well-known ACMOC member made on offer of financial assistance to the club and suggested that perhaps others could make similar offers commensurate with thier means. Another BB poster quickly responded in a somewhat derogatory and inflammatory fashion saying that he would not be donating and implying that he would be judged a Bad member in the eyes of the one who had made to offer and suggestion.

NOWHERE in the post in which the offer and suggestion were made does it imply that those who can't or don't donate would be a 'Bad members', or at least not anywhere that I can see it.

The member who made the original offer came back with a short response that I thought was pretty much spot on as I have had dealings with both people over some years now. This member was then asked by a BoD member to tone down his response because it looked like he was trying to pick a fight with the member who had responded to his offer in a derogatory and inflammatory fashion.

Without going into details, this situation has now come to a point where a whole chapter of ACMOC may depart from the fold.

I ask the BoD members to have a serious think about this situation, especially with regard to what is best for the club as a whole, and take appropriate action to remedy it. With this in mind, I have this morning e-mailed or PM-ed four BoD members in an effort to get this behavior stopped as much of it is coming from just one source.

Please, can't we get back to what this club is supposed to be all about, the saving, collection, restoration and operation of old Caterpillar machinery, the preservation of the company history and the fostering of interest in the wider community?

Just my 0.02.

Deas Plant.
06-23-2012, 07:11 PM
Hi, Old Magnet and Mike Meyer.
Sadly, there are a lot members around the world who rarely if ever visit the BB and the magazine is pretty much their only contact with the club. U.S. members have their various chapters with a chapter also being reformed in Britain recently and these chapters help to keep members in touch with each other and provide focus. For much of the rest of the world, there is still the tyranny of distance with members being scattered far and wide and separated by hundreds of miles, maybe even thousands. F'rinstance. I wonder just many members AMOC has as the crow flies between Roma in Queensland and Perth in Western Australia? Or between Adelaide in South Australia and Darwin in the Northern Territory.

Should we deprive these people of this club contact? There is also the fact that the magazine carries a fair bit of advertising and service information that might just be of some help to these people, not to mention the members in more populated areas. Should we also deprive them of this?

Just my 0.02.

biggastractor
06-23-2012, 08:02 PM
Glen,

Thanks for your generous contribution.

For those of you who are not aware, ACMOC started a scholarship program a couple of years ago. The program and its guidelines are all set out with application criteria etc. A separate ACMOC committee reviews the applications and makes a recommendation for giving out the the scholarships. There is even been a special one funded by a friend of the late Al Smith. The magazine has had much information about the program.

Glen, thanks again, I appreciate it and I am sure everybody else does too.

Biggastractor

Mike Meyer
06-23-2012, 08:25 PM
Hi, Old Magnet and Mike Meyer.
Sadly, there are a lot members around the world who rarely if ever visit the BB and the magazine is pretty much their only contact with the club. U.S. members have their various chapters with a chapter also being reformed in Britain recently and these chapters help to keep members in touch with each other and provide focus. For much of the rest of the world, there is still the tyranny of distance with members being scattered far and wide and separated by hundreds of miles, maybe even thousands. F'rinstance. I wonder just many members AMOC has as the crow flies between Roma in Queensland and Perth in Western Australia? Or between Adelaide in South Australia and Darwin in the Northern Territory.

Should we deprive these people of this club contact? There is also the fact that the magazine carries a fair bit of advertising and service information that might just be of some help to these people, not to mention the members in more populated areas. Should we also deprive them of this?

Just my 0.02.

Hi Deas, You have misread my post, and I think that is not what Old Magnet was suggesting either, to get rid of the magazine, that wouldn't make any sense at all, and that is why I asked him what "Canned" meant in his post, and if you read my previous posts over the last few pages you will see I keep saying I think this Forum is read by only .00001% of our total Membership, and only about 1% of our Financial Members use it on a regular basis, so the Magazine is absolutely critical for reaching our Financial, and potential Financial Members in far flung and remote area's, but I do welcome being corrected by experts on this topic, including the Director responsible for our Forum.

Regarding posts some folks make I agree 110% they must not ever get personal, threatening or vindictive, and that our family members irregardless of sex or age must feel welcome here, the challenge for the Moderators is to find that happy medium as mature men often successful in life speak their mind and "say it like it is", I don't have any problem with that at all, and as one person who has received the odd "shot over the bow" by Yanks and fellow Aussies when my language or post has been misunderstood, it often only takes a PM or two to the other person to clear the matter up, or a rephrasing of my original post to clear the air.

I remember clearly one of ACME's most respected Senior Members called "Tonto" who sadly passed just 2 or 3 years ago in the prime of his life who many here will have known, a proud Native American Indian by birth, who said, "only once you have spent a month of moons walking in another man's moccasins, can you then be qualified to speak in some small way about his life", and I think that's what we need to do here, take a deep breath, step back, and collect our thoughts, and think about the enormous pressures many of us are working and living under keeping a business, marriage or family together, before making hasty decisions about blocking access to what may be the only line of communication they have to the larger international Cat. family, particularly if they have clearly demonstrated being a great team player helping our Forum and it's members in the past. I'd suggest Ian and Glen pick up the phone and talk to each other for 20 or 30 minutes, it only costs a few bucks to phone California most times, and I think they will find they both share the same passion and talent of calling a spade a spade, I do like that in the men I do business with.:lol:
regards
Mike

Tom Madden
06-23-2012, 08:30 PM
For any of you that know Glen "7UPULLER" he is a great guy that works to help the young want to be operators fulfill their dreams of owning and/or operating antique Cat equipment. I am extremely proud to call Glen a friend and I look forward to lots of great times with Glen and his Chapter 5 buds in the future.

Ianoz, I look forward to working with you in the future to further our love for this Cat hobby. In the meantime I suggest that you and Glen find some common ground as this constant bickering on this BB is a real turn off and I am about ready to turn my back and walk away. The tone of this and many other recent conversations on this BB resembles the dems and the republicans on capital hill and is about enough to make all of us puke. If the game plan is to divide the club then all are doing a good job.

We have really hard working directors who DONATE hundreds if not thousands of hours per year and are doing their best to further the goals of the club. Are they perfect, NO. None of us are perfect. I suggest that respect and decency be reintroduced to this BB or it will all blow up. If the disease of me continues through all of these posts than we all get what we deserve.

I would never consider throwing my hat in for consideration as a director as it is a no win situation. For those of you who want to take shots at me for my failure to serve, fire away and then look in the mirror and tell all of us what you have done to further the hobby.

Old Magnet
06-23-2012, 09:09 PM
Hi Mike,
Yah I guess that's the problem with introducing slang into the writing. "Canned" refers to a packaged program that you purchase ready to use and doesn't require an in house programmer to prepare. Usually involves some custom modification to suit the customer but once set up it's a "no brainer". This method offers some real savings and can be quite "cheap" to acquire. For an example take a look at HeavyEquipmentForums.com . It uses the same format.

The BB membership/no magazine is just a suggestion to capture some of those "frugal" fringe viewers.

Years ago it was requested to have some type of identifier on who was a payed member and who was not. In general all comers are welcome but it would help to know who is abusing the good intentions......apparently all fell on deaf ears.

While I'm writing, I'd like to know if there is or can be a recycle program for old club magazines. I have found them to be great viewing but not of much value in content. If there is a use for them as promotional material for the club I'd be happy to bundle them up and ship for a worthy cause.

chriscokid
06-23-2012, 09:44 PM
Reminder:
Just because this is an open forum, it does not mean someone has the right to attack another person using this reasource......
Deas and Tom are correct if anyone has a problem with someone else, this is not the place to settle that difference.

Use Private messages, Email, Phone, Skype, or a sting and two cans, anything but a public forum.

Nothing good has ever come from negativity, except if you are working on an electrical circuit!

Let’s think about the big picture and take the focus off of one another, people are talking about leaving and/or quitting, is that what you really want to do?... I don’t think so....
Do not let one person effect what good you can bring to an organization.
We are in this club not to benefit ourselves but to share what we love: CATERPILLAR

Now if you are looking for a baby sitter I am sure we can find one but is that really necessary!
I would encourage everyone to follow the advice of my late grandmother: "If you have nothing good to say then say nothing at all"

ACMOC Bulletin Board Rules
ACMOC is proud to offer this family-friendly bulletin board as a service to our members and guests. We strongly encourage industry-related discussions, exchanges of information, photographs, services and classifieds to further promote the collection, preservation, restoration, display and study of products and memorabilia of Caterpillar and its related predecessors.

Users of this site must agree to refrain from the use of profanity, posting inappropriate photos or links, or overtly disparaging comments towards any individual, ACMOC or Caterpillar Inc. Failure to comply may result in the deleting of posts, and/or temporary or permanent banishment from use of this bulletin board.

http://www.acmoc.org/bb/misc.php?do=showrules

chriscokid
06-23-2012, 09:47 PM
While I'm writing, I'd like to know if there is or can be a recycle program for old club magazines. I have found them to be great viewing but not of much value in content. If there is a use for them as promotional material for the club I'd be happy to bundle them up and ship for a worthy cause.

OM,
I like to give them away to people I meet at shows, or someone who shows even the slightest interest in antique caterpillar machinery.
or you can take them by your local cat dealer, I am sure someone will come along that might like to enjoy them.

Mike Meyer
06-23-2012, 09:49 PM
Hi Mike,
Yah I guess that's the problem with introducing slang into the writing. "Canned" refers to a packaged program that you purchase ready to use and doesn't require an in house programmer to prepare. Usually involves some custom modification to suit the customer but once set up it's a "no brainer". This method offers some real savings and can be quite "cheap" to acquire. For an example take a look at HeavyEquipmentForums.com . It uses the same format.

The BB membership/no magazine is just a suggestion to capture some of those "frugal" fringe viewers.

Years ago it was requested to have some type of identifier on who was a payed member and who was not. In general all comers are welcome but it would help to know who is abusing the good intentions......apparently all fell on deaf ears.

While I'm writing, I'd like to know if there is or can be a recycle program for old club magazines. I have found them to be great viewing but not of much value in content. If there is a use for them as promotional material for the club I'd be happy to bundle them up and ship for a worthy cause.

Hi Pete, I was assuming that is what you were alluding to, a "Generic" program, and the idea of a cheaper Forum membership only, is worth investigating for sure for those wanting to help keep the ACMOC lights burning, I must say the magazine is getting better as more restoration and historical stories get published, perhaps the magazine Committee could approach Cat. Inc. for permission to reprint some of the older Service Bulletin sheets, they are usually very interesting and informative to new chums like me, even those comic style one's carry important messages that I've learnt from.

Looking at the latest magazine I see the role of an "International Director" still has to be voted on and approved by the ACMOC Members attending the Annual Meeting at Bowling Green, Ohio, and I wonder how many Financial Members are expected to attend this meeting to vote, because obviously all the 2,400 Financial Members will not be there, maybe 10% will be though I'm guessing, and of those I wonder how many will be Financial Members from outside the USA? How do Financial Members not attending the Annual ACMOC Meeting in Bowling Green vote on the two motions being put forward by the BOD, or are these issues simply decided by the minority attending the Annual Meeting, are Proxy Votes available to Financial Members in this situation I wonder, as they are in any normal Corporation?
regards
Mike

ianoz
06-30-2012, 03:57 PM
While I'm writing, I'd like to know if there is or can be a recycle program for old club magazines. I have found them to be great viewing but not of much value in content. If there is a use for them as promotional material for the club I'd be happy to bundle them up and ship for a worthy cause.

Old Magnet , In keeping with the clubs mission statement regarding young people .I know of a 7 year old boy ,that though no fault of his own has been deprived of the magazine that he has grown up with . I am sure his father would be willing to pay the postage to have them sent to the UK , when you have finished with them .

chriscokid
06-30-2012, 04:09 PM
Ian,
sometimes the innocent suffer the consequences because of the actions of others.
That is why people should think of others before thinking of themselves.

ianoz
06-30-2012, 05:58 PM
Ian,
sometimes the innocent suffer the consequences because of the actions of others.
That is why people should think of others before thinking of themselves.

You Don't need to tell me about that Erik . I am getting plenty of experience of it here first hand. There is a lot of different ways to read different meanings into written words .Some seem to read something totally different in what I post .
For instance with Glenns ratings for donations , I looked and thought .OK what if someone decides to donate $5000, Do they need and expect a Double platium rating ? . A retired person who wishes to donate $20 ,Not a big amount compared to $1000 , but in the scheme of things a big amount to someone with a small income .
Big or small a donation is gratefully recieved , and should not be rated . My thoughts on the matter anyway .

7upuller
06-30-2012, 07:38 PM
IenOz,

Yes, people from all walks in life donate towards causes they believe in. All donations are greatfully recieved. Is yours?

Willie
07-01-2012, 03:10 AM
1.
This is the Budget for this years website
596 Website expense annual opperating expense 12,000.00
This does not include staff time for putting thigs like the minutes ect, or Bruce,Walt and GWH who all spend time reveiwing new BB members and seaching out and deleteing the pornsite spammers
We have tabled many things that were planned to be added, like 100s of show pics that were taken by GWH because we didnt have the funds to have them virus scanned and posted. But hopefully we will do them sometime in the future. No current minutes are do to budget cuts also.

2.We only received 2 candidates for this year election Terry Welch WI. and Lance Jones Aus. so for the year 2013 the BoD will be made of 8 members. the 9th spot in reserved for the perminate International spot if appoved by the general membership at our annual membership meeting in Bowling Green this year.
Under the bylaws the BoD has the opption of having from 7 to 12 BoD members seated. We chose to keep the current 9 member BoD and reseving 1 of the 9 for and International only member who if approved by the members will be elected next year for 2014-15-16. also by doing this we avoided and problems of appointing a someone and being acussed of being a good ole boys club. Bios and Ballots we be out in the next issues of our magazine. I encourage you to vote and return ballot, theres always a chance for write-ins. and it would be a shame for these guys who took the time to follow the process get cheated out of their seat by a write-in

3. Terry we do need to get more volunteers to get involved in the committees and I'm very sure Pete will welcome you on his Insurance committee. I have pushed to keep the committee chairperson a BoD member for the reason of answering to the BoD. they are at every BoD meeting and avil. to answer questions of the BoD. here,as if the chair was not a BoD member we would have to take that person time up waiting thru a costly confrence call for the their time to report and that could vary by hours and all thur the meeting its possable that the BoD may have some reqeust of the committee and the chairman will be there getting the story from the horses mouth not a memo that could be unclear. But I do engourage others to please get involved in th committees.

4. I serve as chair for 2 committees and the machinery question committee takes considerable time each week. A lady will send EMail. "I have old cat in the barn can you tell me what year it is and what its worth" nothing else. It takes time to back and forth EMails or phone to get a discription and pics, then to id it, then pass the the info to other experts to get the correct info for the person, it all takes time and we get from 2 to 10 of these a week. One guy sent Email saying he had a Cat 10 in his barn and wanted to know if anybody wanted it before it went to scrap, I asked for pics to post on the BB and when the pic arrived it was a Cat No.10 motor grader.

The other committee is the nominating comm. You have to be on the lookout at shows,the BB, ect for good active members,Deas,Petes,Toms,Terrys,John Gaunts,Ect. then when time comes you have to contact them all and ask "Beg" them to run for BoD because thats the only way other then the BB and Magzine to find candidates. You have to come up with candidates for the ACMOC member of the year and Dave Smith award and present them to the BoD for approval.
Dont think that any of our committees are something that are not time consuming.If you take them serious and do it right they can take up alot of time.
Ths club has until past couple years has had more then its share of deadbeats who want the glory but not hold up their end. Or dictators who had their own agenda and didnt care what a committee recomended. And the end result its done by staff at a cost.
The reward is you get to work many hours a year on a volunteer basis and spend alot of your own money just so you can get kicked around by guys like Ianoz who are never happy and soon to be joining th ranks of the Bs

5. As for the profit and loss issue the books show we made a good income, but in the red at end of year is because we did do very well pulling ourselves out of the deep hole the BoD of 2 yrs ago and prior put us into, but we also had to fork out cash to have graders and terracers manufactured that we dont take delivery on until april of the next year so we cant show the cash we invested it in the production of models and we cant show the product as inventory because it wasnt here til april. This year we will show cash spent for finnal payment but will be able to show income from those sold and inventory on hand, any presales we make do not show up as income until they are deliverd. Again this is like our inventory its an ongoing process and to get the exact numbers we would have to shut down for a period of months for every transaction to be completed.

Deas Plant.
07-01-2012, 07:30 AM
Hi, Willie.
Thank you for taking the time and the trouble to post that update and other information.

Also, although I am now unable to commit to three full years as a BOD member, please feel free to call on me for committee service anywhere that you think I can make a worthwhile contribution. As you probably know, I am trying to track down information on Buster's toys for Glen and the 2014 show but I reckon can spare some time to help out if needed.

Thanks again.

tw
07-01-2012, 09:25 AM
Willie, I asked Peter and George for some information. I am now on the Finance and Insurance Committee. It does not take much to get involved. I have now read most the insurance Policys and will speak with Peter this week. It looks like the club is in good shape that way. I have also requested a copy of the By-Laws and George has sent this to me. I have read this and it is the standard boiler plate By-Laws which also looks good too. I believe any BOD member needs to be up on the By-Laws of any club they belong to. It is far better to know this to answer any questions. Willie I understand about the Chairmanship of the Committees but the reason I said it , being it might get more members involved in the leadership of the club. With them running for Board spots later on.

I have nice visit with Dave Wintermute the other day along with Kent Bates. Too bad it was the hottest day of the year around here.

Terry

Old Magnet
07-01-2012, 09:39 AM
Willie, thanks for the info.

Of the $12K BB operating cost, what is the breakdown between the cost of the "Generic" software vs technical support....ADCO?? etc.