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mike in ca
02-13-2013, 02:22 AM
I have been working on my late grandfathers RD4 and I have run into several problems. It seems to be missing two brass fuel filters in the first pic, There is a tower on top of this that has 4 twine looking filters in it. The second pic shows the complete set up. The third pic is what greeted me when I removed the inspection cover on the oil pan, it was almost 1 inch thick. I dug around in the sludge looking for metal chunks but only found a few small flakes thankfully.

Are there supposed to be filters in the first pic?



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v213/159215/TO%2035%20tractor/RD4%20restoration/5b756783-91e8-46ea-af50-36230bce0ee7.jpg


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v213/159215/TO%2035%20tractor/RD4%20restoration/002.jpg


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v213/159215/TO%2035%20tractor/RD4%20restoration/026.jpg

Mike Meyer
02-13-2013, 02:52 AM
I have a RD4 motor with that same set up though I haven't taken the filter tower apart, what is the serial number of your tractor? I'm assuming your tractor has been fitted with a later Fuel Filter Group 5B9914 that allowed for four woven filters to be used instead of the 2 original brass ones. My RD4 Parts Number Book says that filter tower uses a 7B0019 Element Assembly which will have 4 filters, and new gaskets for the tower top.

Try and scrub and flush out that sludge as best you can, that is normal for a working tractor with a lot of hours, you will need to clean your oil screen too I expect, and my suggestion is plan on draining your new oil and cleaning the filters again after a hours good work out, because you will be giving that motor a real good internal clean.
regards
Mike

mike in ca
02-13-2013, 03:13 AM
The number tag on the engine is 4G 2138. The tag on the rear by the draw bar is missing. The part number on the filter housing is 5B9720. So when it was modified to take the 4 filters they removed the two brass filters? Is the 7B0019 filter number still available? I need to get 4 replacement filters for this tractor.

I did remove the oil pick up screen, cleaned and reinstalled it with a new gasket. My dad tried to clean as much of the sludge out of the oil pan as he could reach. The oil filter is another problem, It is missing the outer brass screen so the paper element is just sitting in the oil filter housing and the oil was just going around it. I need to find a replacement brass screen and paper filter if possible. I am afraid to run it without the oil filter working properly.

Mike Meyer
02-13-2013, 03:58 AM
Mike, the fuel filter part number 7B0019 evolves into 2A5886, the 4 woven filters cost about $US45 here in Australia from my Cat. Dealer, plus you will need the gaskets 5B9733 and 5B9831 if they are not included in your filter kit, they add another $US15 to the bill here in Oz, but I'm sure your local NAPA store will have them as a aftermarket set too.

As for the oil filter that is a whole different ball game and I'll need one of our more experienced Catheads to chime in like Edb or Old Magnet, because I'm not aware of a paper element being used around the original inner brass filter, I understood there was a upgrade that did away with the brass filters but only after some internal modifications to the oil filter tower to accept a disposable paper element. Sit tight and don't rush these two critical parts of oil and fuel filtration, let's get them right before you fire her up because a busted engine is expensive.
regards
Mike in Oz

7upuller
02-13-2013, 09:11 AM
Hey Mike,

Call Dana with Florine Tractor located in Sacramento, Ca. (Actually it's Florine, Ca.) Dana found RD-4 parts for me before. His number is located in the Parts Sticky. As others have said, after running it a few days and working it, service it again, as the new lubricants will flush it out some. Dana should be able to find the parts you need.

Old Magnet
02-13-2013, 10:04 AM
4G2138 pre-dates the full flow filter conversions and uses a two screen inner/outer element assembly or can be converted to two stage by-pass system as discussed in:

http://www.acmoc.org/bb/showthread.php?17921-1939-D2-3J-Oil-Filter

chriscokid
02-13-2013, 12:18 PM
Hey Mike,

Call Dana with Florine Tractor located in Sacramento, Ca. (Actually it's Florine, Ca.) Dana found RD-4 parts for me before. His number is located in the Parts Sticky. As others have said, after running it a few days and working it, service it again, as the new lubricants will flush it out some. Dana should be able to find the parts you need.

http://www.florintractor.com/default.htm

mike in ca
02-13-2013, 01:03 PM
I will give Florine Tractor a call for the fuel filters and gaskets. Since it is missing the brass screen and who knows what else do you think I should be looking to replace the whole oil filter assembly?


This is the only pic I have of the oil filter assembly.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v213/159215/TO%2035%20tractor/RD4%20restoration/301e5794-6acd-4105-8af6-de4800690e8e.jpg

Mike Meyer
02-13-2013, 01:53 PM
That's a good idea Mike, replacing the whole filter tower with a later model one set up for a better filter, because I reckon it might be cheaper than trying to take it back to the original brass screens, and guys over there are scrapping those old D4's all the time, even "Willie" a ACMOC Director sent 3 or 4 old D4's off to China last year and I reckon he said 2 of them were runners.

Put a request in the Buy / Sell section here on ACMOC stipulating the filter tower you are looking to buy must be set up for "modern" oil filters and not the old brass one's, my Parts Number book for my D4 7J built in 1939, just after yours, says the "newer" oil filter tower is part number 7B7775 using a 6B0907 element. The tower you currently have uses 2 brass screens, 5B5984 is the outer brass screen, while 5B5983 is the inner brass screen, you never know, Dana there at Florin might have a new or good secondhand one on the shelf at a good price, I buy a lot of parts there and find them good to deal with.
regards
Mike

chriscokid
02-13-2013, 02:20 PM
Weller Tractor Salvage Inc 800-255-9325 or 620-792-5243 Int'l has the 7B7775

and Florin has the elements

Old Magnet
02-13-2013, 02:46 PM
Be sure to get the oil gallery manifold to match the oil filter assembly.

mike in ca
02-16-2013, 04:36 PM
It looks like Florin tractor might have both of the elements that I need for the oil filter on the tractor now, I'm just waiting to hear back from them. If it does not work out then I will be getting the 7B7775 filter and the oil gallery manifold like OM suggested. When I took the fuel filter housing off of the tractor there was no gasket between it and the flat plate it was bolted to. Does that sound right? I would think it would leak with no gasket.

Old Magnet
02-16-2013, 08:19 PM
If your going to the 7B7775 you should consider getting the full flow filter upgrade instead of staying with the by-pass unit.

Yes there should be gaskets, one for the manifold and one for the base.

Takes these parts:

mike in ca
06-22-2013, 12:06 PM
Its been along time since I posted an update but I have been slowly working on the cat and now I have another question, how to remove a broken off bolt in the lower radiator tank?

Dad and I drilled most of the bolt out and tried to use an easy-out but it broke off in the bolt. Any ideas how I can remove this bolt?

STEPHEN
06-22-2013, 01:55 PM
Its been along time since I posted an update but I have been slowly working on the cat and now I have another question, how to remove a broken off bolt in the lower radiator tank?

Dad and I drilled most of the bolt out and tried to use an easy-out but it broke off in the bolt. Any ideas how I can remove this bolt?

Mike, I been there before, I can hear the snap of the remover and feel that pain. What I would do is to get a 1/8" carbide bur into a pneumatic pencil grinder and cut it out. Or perhaps a carbide die drill. Usually you don't have to go very deep because the remover is tapered , so you only have to get the portion that is engaged.

mike in ca
06-25-2013, 10:49 AM
The radiator is at a friends house getting worked on and should be done soon. In the mean time I found a guy that has about an acre of old cats and parts so I was able to get what I think is the better oil filter housing. It says "PurOlator 22537 type MA-10-2" on it, is this the 7B7775 filter?

Old Magnet
06-25-2013, 03:22 PM
The 7B7775 is replaced by a 9F6426 which shows a Puralator number of 22901 or 38416. Doesn't mean you don't have the right unit as in all possibility it may have the full flow conversion. The only external indication is the conversion has the hex nut with large slot in it to hold the filter canister top down. But even that does not guarrantee that it has the right parts.

mike in ca
07-01-2013, 04:04 PM
The easy out was removed with the help of a quick blast of a torch and the rest of the broken off stud was removed. With that done the next major issue is the engine is stuck. I don't know how bad but it wont budge with a bar on the end of the crank shaft. Its been sitting with a mix of diesel and ATF in the cylinders for about a week now but I am thinking its going to need the head removed. Are head gaskets still available for the D4400?

Dozerman51
07-01-2013, 06:01 PM
Call Florin Tractor in Sacramento or FP Smith in Fairfield, one of them should have the Headgasket you need. Having the part number available speeds the search up a lot. :wave:

Cat Tracks
07-01-2013, 06:13 PM
Mike
If your motor isnt stuck too bad you can engage the pony motor clutch with the pony not running make sure mag is grounded. Decompression lever engaged. Gently roll pony motor flywheel back and forth. There is alot of gear reduction there so be careful. It worked for me on a d2 that had been sitting for quite some time it would not budge with a bar on the front of the crankshaft

mike in ca
07-03-2013, 11:25 AM
So far no luck on finding a new head gasket. Has anyone here ever reused a head gasket?

Lance Jones
07-03-2013, 01:54 PM
Have You tried Cat ? be suprised if they Can't Supply , Also Olsen's Gaskets in W.A. 360-871-1207 . I am sure will help . Used them Many Times . Good luck. LJ

mike in ca
07-04-2013, 12:28 AM
After calling several places with no luck I called the local CAT dealer and they will have one in the morning, overnight from Bakersfield, CA $62. I am amazed at how much stuff can still be ordered for this old of a machine. I have the head off now and #1 was at BDC and full of water. #2 and 3 are at TDC and rusted some, #4 is at BDC also and does not look too bad. I have them all soaking now so hopefully soon they will be free again.

mike in ca
09-02-2013, 01:50 PM
I have the oil pan off and removed the # 3 and 4 rod bearing caps. # 3 looks like it is in good shape but #4 is shot, i'm surprised it did not knock. Are replacement bearings still available for the d4400?

mike in ca
09-19-2013, 08:23 PM
I have #1,2 and 4 pistons out but #3 is stuck fast. #3 is at TDC and won't budge even with a soaking in kroil and hitting it with a 2lb hammer and a brass drift. I am at a loss on this one. Any ideas on removing this piston?

If I can't get the piston out, is it possible to remove the liner with the piston still in it?

Old Magnet
09-19-2013, 08:47 PM
Yes, that is commonly done. As far as main bearings go they have been tough to find for some time.

ol Grump
09-20-2013, 08:47 AM
I've freed rusted/frozen pistons by dumping some diesel (about a cup) on the offending piston, tossing in a small rag to act as a wick and lighting it. After the flames go out let it cool for 10-15 minutes, then a wood block close to bore size goes on top and I whack it a few times with an 8lb beater. No movement? More diesel, flames and time and try it again. .and again. .and again.


As you have the bearings out, you can rotate the crankshaft so there's no danger of dinging it with the rod.

mike in ca
09-20-2013, 10:27 PM
I will try the diesel and burning rag trick tomorrow. If that does not work then I will try to remove the liner and piston together

mike in ca
09-25-2013, 08:15 PM
Is there a special tool to remove the liner with the piston in it?

CR
09-26-2013, 04:07 AM
I ran into the same problem on my 1943 D42T. I had to get the crank positioned into the right spot then had to use a bottle jack on the floor with some steel straps pushing up on the bottom of the piston hoping I would either brake the piston or the liner free. I ended up lifting the whole front of the tractor up so I stopped before I broke something or myself.

I tried everything that was suggested on the different bulletin boards. Finally got the piston free with kroil, Plus I had a block that fit into the bore and I would put a plate on top of the block and would run a small air chisel on it with the hammer head bit.

The air chisel would vibrate the piston enough like an impact wrench that the kroil would finally start to move down the walls of the cylinder. Before using the air chisel and block whatever rust juice I would put in there would not move from day to day.

After doing this for about 30 minutes each day for three days on the third day I hit the top of a 4x4 wood block that was resting on top of the piston with a 5 lb hammer and there was a different thud sound and the piston moved down about 1/2" and was stuck. At that point I had to run so I put more Kroil and the next day the piston moved as it was never stuck.

mike in ca
09-26-2013, 12:03 PM
Thank you for the suggestions, yesterday I was able to get # 3 moving. Kroil would not even get around it. A machinist friend of my dad made us an aluminum block 2 in tall by 4 in around, I set it on top of the piston and using an 8 lb sledge hammer it started moving. #3 is at BDC now and from what I can see the top of the liner has a lot of rust damage where the rings sat.

The cat dealer says they can get the liners 7B4348 new for $113. Are these the correct liners?

CR
09-26-2013, 02:52 PM
That is the liner that I used on my 2T that has the same D4400 engine as the 4G Rd4 but I don't have the parts book to confirm. I couldn't get new pistons in 2009 from Holt of CA so I went to associated tractor in Stockton looking for at least 1 good one to replace the one that was eaten up and they were able to get me 4 new Federal Mogal pistons. I want to say I had about $250 a hole for new liners, pistons, seals, shims, and rings and another $500 - 600 into the head which was pinning a crack, pressure testing, new guides and I am not sure what else.

mike in ca
09-28-2013, 10:20 PM
Thanks for the info on the pistons, its good to know they are still available. All of the pistons in this engine have pitting from water getting in while it was running. The part number on the pistons is 1H1694 so they have been replaced once before. I might have an engine shop magnaflux the head, the pitting did not look recent but I don't want to put the engine back together with a possible crack in the head.

The liners should clean up but #4 has grooves worn in the wall where a wrist pin retainer came loose. Cat wants $30 a piece for the liner o-rings, is that a fair price?

CR
09-29-2013, 02:22 AM
Those D4400 are prone to cracking I went through 3 heads all were cracked the ones at two different Cat used parts places were cracked as well plus with the pitting in the piston I would not be surprised if you found a crack. Send me a PM if you want more info on where to go.

mike in ca
07-02-2015, 10:46 PM
I finally just got back back to this project and now I need to find the rear main cap packings 2B2414. Cat says they are no longer available, any ideas where I might be able to buy some?

Dozerman51
07-02-2015, 11:56 PM
Hi Mike,
County Line Cat in Washington show that they have 4 in stock as of 07-02-15. PH#(253)922-6658. Just go to the Machinery Trader website and go scroll to the area that list parts for sale. Punch in the Cat number and lots of foks have the part you are looking for. :nod:
Joe Giraud
40' Cat D2/3J#4103
41; Dodge WC-12 Military 4x4 Pick-up.

BillWalter
07-03-2015, 04:24 PM
Have you thought about checking the Fuel Inj. pump condition and going through the injectors. In fact, I have a set of injectors for that RD 4. The fuel transfer pump seals are probably about gone too. I have a rebuilt RD 4 fuel transfer pump ore I can update yours with lip type seals. Call; Bill Walter; 1 816 891 8654 or cell # 816 805 1834, E-mail wltrbet @aol.com

mike in ca
08-21-2015, 02:05 PM
Right now I have a machine shop rebuilding the cylinder head but they ran into a problem. The head has been run through a hot tank already and I'm told the pressure test afterwords was good and the precups are not leaking. They told me the head is warped 4 thousandths. My serviceman's reference book does not give a limit on head warpage, does 4 thousandths sound bad to you?



@ Bill Walter
I'm sure the transfer pump has bad seals also, I think that is how the fuel drained from the tank into the crankcase. I will definitely be giving you a call once the cylinder head is back together.