PDA

View Full Version : Looking for opinions about my Cat 12E grader-traction problems



roerjm
10-12-2013, 10:07 AM
Hi;
Last spring I purchased a nice 1965 Cat 12E road grader for use on my farm. I had never operated a grader before so I learned by getting on and teaching myself. I have already put more than 50 hours on the grader and am getting much better at operating it. My first project was to do with my long (3/4 mile) driveway. Much of the fields on each side of my road were nearly one foot higher than my road. I did a lot of work to push back the dirt away from the road and make nice smooth ditches on each side of my road. This grader has always had plenty of power. The problem I had with doing this dirt work and other dirt work since then is when I start to peel much with the blade the tires start spinning out. The tires do not dig in to the dirt, they just spin on top of the dirt. Then the grader will start to slide sideways even with front tires angled. The four rear tires are approx 40% tread. Would new tires help? Should I add weight to the rear of the grader or consider adding fluid weight into the four rear tires? Do I need to put on new tires and add weight? I think this grader could do much more if I could get traction and not slide sideways. I appreciate any thoughts or opinions on this problem. Thank you, Roland (roerjm)

ccjersey
10-12-2013, 11:45 AM
What kind of shape is the cutting edge in? Might also need to roll the moldboard back if installing a new cutting edge. I would not recommend it if your cutting edge is worn a lot. When the cutting edge is sharp, it takes less downpressure on the moldlboard to get it to cut, so more weight remains on the wheels.

Weight will help and liquid tire ballast is probably the easiest way to add weight. There are non-corrosive solutions available to use as ballast or if you can get hooked up with a truck shop or something like that that has collected coolant to recycle, it would make a decent but lighter ballast solution. Some recommend windshield washer antifreeze solution or RV antifreeze solution.

I doubt the tires are the problem. Deep tread makes a different if the surface is soft, but sounds like where you're having the problem, it's hard.

edb
10-12-2013, 06:09 PM
Hi Team,
it should be remembered that a grader is a finishing too,l not a bulldozer--much like a wood plane is to a saw in wood working.
As CCJ said, adjusting the blade tip, or pitch, angle back and forth can get better results--if the edge is worn and therefore wide, tilting it back will expose an upturned sloping face of the edge that will skid and not dig in.
A good starting blade angle is with the top of the blade vertical or very slightly forward of the cutting edge and go from there depending on the materials being graded.

If your ground is really hard it should be scarified with the attachment scarifier--if fitted.
You may get some penetration by using either the front or rear corner tip of the blade with the blade angled somewhat parallel to the machine centre line to scour a shallow trench or two along your line of grade. Using the rear corner tip allows more weight to be applied without the steering skidding away.
In the Army this was called a Pioneering Cut.

Learning to grade is all about thinking outside the box and experimenting--watching other operators and picking up on techniques.
Cheers,
Eddie B.

Deas Plant.
10-12-2013, 07:05 PM
Hi, Roerjm.
One question if I may. (You're too far away to stop me anyway, so here goes.) Are ALL FOUR drive wheels spinning. If only 3 of the 4 are spinning, you most likely have a broken drive chain in that tandem case - which can cause all sorts of havoc if it catches on a rotating tooth. If BOTH wheels on one side are NOT spinning while the other side is spinning, you have a 'slightly' more serious problem, a broken drive axle on that side. There is no differential in those rigid frame Cat 12E's, so all four drive wheels should spin together - - - IF the operator lets them.

As Edb mentioned, graders are a finishing tool rather than a bulk earth moving tool. That said, it is amazing just how much dirt you can move with a grader if you know how. As also mentioned earlier, use the leading or trailing corners to get into hard ground, use the scarifiers or rippers if so equipped and use the accelerator - if it has one - to better control the power to the drive so that you reduce the amount of tire spinning. With the limited power-on-ground potential of a grader as opposed to a crawler 'dozer, you just have to keep gnawing away at it until you gitter-dunn.

Just my 0.02.

chumduffy
10-12-2013, 07:47 PM
Roerjm. CCj, Eddie B, and my friend Deas have you on the right track. What I would reinforce here, Is it sound like your asking your grader to do to much at once. If your front wheels are leaned away from your side cut and the front wheels are skipping or slipping on the road surface then I think your trying to cut and push to much. as long as it is dry with that machine you should have no trouble pulling the ditch and grading the running surface of a driveway with little wheel to no wheel spin. Chum.

fordhook
10-12-2013, 11:00 PM
Deas Plant gives good advice. 12 Grader is a good heavy machine and will move a lot of dirt without spinning tires.

catskinner
10-22-2013, 07:41 PM
He is not pulling and grading a road. He is blading the dirt out into the fields. Cat 12E graders are kind of light. That is why you see so many with wheel weights on the rear wheels. Take a lighter cut so you don't have the chance to spin the tires and also, if you are running in 1st gear, go to 2nd. or even 3rd gear. You can move a lot of dirt in those 2 higher gears and don't have the chance to spin the tires as easy. catskinner

7upuller
10-22-2013, 09:53 PM
Hello roerjm,
Hello Gang,

It's been a while since I have posted. The 99-e is a special machine and has a soft spot in my heart, but so does Deas, LOL. He is an hard worker just like that grader....

Roejm, one important trick that gets the 12-e to reduce tire spinning is to use the circle reverse to the maximum ability. Operators like to run the moldboard at a slight angle, but that's not enough. The closer that the heel of the blade(windrow side) is to the drive tire, the more traction the machine will have. Swing the side shift over a bit, tuck the blade as close to the drive tire as possible, lean the tires more to the windrow, it will help. Rip up or scarify, as moving loose soil is a lot more productive than cutting hard pan.

When I was a young man running a 99-e cutting curb and gutter grade in front of a concrete crew, I felt proud of my production for the day. I asked a very experienced grade checker if he thought I was a professional yet. He stated, "No, not until you learn to run the heel closer and learn the real ability of the machine". Of course it set me back a little, but the rest of the job I studied his comments. By the end of the project he told me I finally got it right. Running the heel close is uncomfortable. It's not easy to see it tucked under there, but it sure moves a lot more dirt. The more square it's run, even a degree or two will the reduce production of the machine. If you are fine grading, not cutting much, squaring the blade more is fine, but when you are moving a lot of material, pull the heel in close and get it done.-glen

64farmboy
10-23-2013, 06:09 AM
Hello roerjm,
Hello Gang,

It's been a while since I have posted. The 99-e is a special machine and has a soft spot in my heart, but so does Deas, LOL. He is an hard worker just like that grader....

Roejm, one important trick that gets the 12-e to reduce tire spinning is to use the circle reverse to the maximum ability. Operators like to run the moldboard at a slight angle, but that's not enough. The closer that the heel of the blade(windrow side) is to the drive tire, the more traction the machine will have. Swing the side shift over a bit, tuck the blade as close to the drive tire as possible, lean the tires more to the windrow, it will help. Rip up or scarify, as moving loose soil is a lot more productive than cutting hard pan.

When I was a young man running a 99-e cutting curb and gutter grade in front of a concrete crew, I felt proud of my production for the day. I asked a very experienced grade checker if he thought I was a professional yet. He stated, "No, not until you learn to run the heel closer and learn the real ability of the machine". Of course it set me back a little, but the rest of the job I studied his comments. By the end of the project he told me I finally got it right. Running the heel close is uncomfortable. It's not easy to see it tucked under there, but it sure moves a lot more dirt. The more square it's run, even a degree or two will the reduce production of the machine. If you are fine grading, not cutting much, squaring the blade more is fine, but when you are moving a lot of material, pull the heel in close and get it done.-glen

Glen, good to hear from you again, hope you and your family are doing well
Dennie