PDA

View Full Version : anywhere in australia for cat crawler 22 waterpump



muzza
05-16-2014, 08:50 PM
hi guys , well got my carbie rebuilt and she was running sweet , but the water pump is no good , when we had it off the impellers have to much space around them for water to get circulated properly , so about 30 minutes working and she overheats ,im in australia , just wondering if anyone knows of anywhere i could get a rebuilt water pump from , or maybe rebuild kit ?ive looked online coudnt really find anything , its a cat crawler 22 1937 kero/petrol motor chassis number 1j2628 sp ,,cheers for any help

Lance Jones
05-17-2014, 04:46 AM
Hi muzza , before you condemn the Pump to the scrap bin , have thoroughly checked your radiator [Flush out or Rod out ?] and done a full flush of Motor and Checked thermostat ? What clearance do have from Impeller to Housing ? New impellers are like rocking horse S''''' to find . It"s a wonder someone hasn't made a Repo. I think that one is beyond Me to get Made. But I might look at it with a matching Shaft . I know a Chap who may be able to help with them . I will have a look here ,I just May have a spare ,I will let you know in a Day or so . LJ

mrsmackpaul
05-17-2014, 05:33 AM
I dont think it would cost much to get one cast up I got in impeller made for a pump last year and it would be a lot more complex than a car water pump including getting the pattern made was only $260.00 at local foundry

Paul

Mike Meyer
05-17-2014, 04:11 PM
I'm with Lance, I'd be investigating your whole cooling system before ripping the water pump apart and looking for a impeller, does your impeller spin properly, my RD6 started getting hot last year and I discovered the drive pin and key had rusted away on the impeller shaft allowing the impeller to freewheel. I'd start by grabbing one of those small magnets on a extendable stick and remove your radiator cap and probe in every direction of the top radiator tank with it for rust flakes, then remove the bottom radiator pipe to check you have good water flow through the core and back flush the core, then get hold of a good cooling system cleaner, Cat sell two, a quick acting one that works in hours and a slow one that works over a week, and add one of those to your system.

A lot of flakey rust and scale builds up in those old engines and radiators that quickly block the water flow.
Regards
Mike

NIK O.
05-17-2014, 04:33 PM
If rd4 diesel is same, will send u one, used, u pay freight. Be blessed, grateful, prepared, nik

muzza
05-17-2014, 04:52 PM
hi guys thanks very much for the suggestions so far , its technically my dads machine and when we had the radiator off recently to repair a crack up on the outside of the radiator, i know he cleaned it out etc , he also had the water pump off and i remember him telling me the shaft for the impellers was um like to far in or out (he may have said the shaft had sum movement in it , ill have to check with him ) so the impellers didnt sit flush in the housing (ill have to confirm with him thats what he said ) i did suggest to him about a possible thermostat issue , but hes not sure if it had one lol ,i guess we will look harder for it, o and one thing i noticed yesterday when it had been running for a good 20 minutes i put my hand right in front of radiator and it was cool air blowing thru it from the fan , shouldn't that off been hot ?? so im not sure if we are even getting hardly any water circulation thru the engine ? after 30 minutes of working sum dirt the top radiator cap came loose (from the pressure) ? and hot water was spraying out abit , so we turned her off and u could hear the radiator gurgling a bit , bit frustrating because we had just got our carby rebuild kit from America and she was running like a dream , sorry for the 44463guys ill have to catch up with dad and get the actual details off him , just curious where abouts would i find the thermostat housing ? is it in the big box thing that comes off the back of the radiator ? thanks again for your help fellas cheers

Lance Jones
05-17-2014, 06:43 PM
Hi Muzza , Your Thermostat upgrade number is 5H9740 and Seal Ring is 4F7390 and Available from Cat ex Melbourne. for about $40 plus GST . Just rang H.D. It fits in the pipe that comes off Radiator to top of Water Pump . Still sounds like water not circulating properly so wondering also if having taken radiator off and maybe sat for a while if a fresh lot of Crap has Blocked the top . that Radiator Cap gasket is also available from Cat 2B1039 for under $2. LJ

muzza
05-17-2014, 11:06 PM
thanku very much for the help lance,yeah ill have to check the whole cooling system properly , cheers again

Mike Meyer
05-18-2014, 03:27 AM
Hi Muzza , Your Thermostat upgrade number is 5H9740 and Seal Ring is 4F7390 and Available from Cat ex Melbourne. for about $40 plus GST . Just rang H.D. It fits in the pipe that comes off Radiator to top of Water Pump . Still sounds like water not circulating properly so wondering also if having taken radiator off and maybe sat for a while if a fresh lot of Crap has Blocked the top . that Radiator Cap gasket is also available from Cat 2B1039 for under $2. LJ

Hi Lance, do you know what temperature that 5H9740 thermostat opens at, because I bought a genuine Cat upgrade thermostat a few years ago for another gas Cat and the new thermostat opened at 195F which I think is too hot for the gas Cats, I'd be thinking down around 175 to 180F would be more suitable for a 15 or 22, what do you think?
Mike

Lance Jones
05-18-2014, 10:46 AM
G'day Mike , No I don't know the Exact Opening Temp , OM may have those details .I haven't had any problems either , But in saying that , Driving around at rallies is not what You call hard Work !! LJ

Neil
12-26-2014, 03:40 AM
Checked out my 22 today and either the thermostat is not opening or the pump is not pumping. Mike: did you find out what the opening temperature for that replacement part number is?
Had a successful day today - started the 22 after towing it around with the Ferg to warm it up (just like running it with a pony on compression). Fired up nicely and both steering clutches were free, however the main was stuck. I stuck it in first and drove about 30' and it broke free so I am very happy about that. Video of it idling - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1W_chPiW9KA

old-iron-habit
12-26-2014, 05:21 AM
The 22 sounds good Neil. Great to hear that the clutches are releasing like they should. Are you in The southern hemisphere for the Christmas holidays? The grass looks a little green for December in New York state.

Garlic Pete
12-26-2014, 08:38 AM
That nice, low idle sounds just wonderful. That is a neat looking Twenty Two. The video is a bit like looking through the keyhole. Feels like I snuck over the fence and am trying not to get caught, looking at yellow pornography!

I'm really interested in the nifty sheave at the top of the radiator. It looks like maybe a solution to lift a blade? Need more pics, but am afraid to re-watch the video because the farmer may come around the side of the barn with the double barrel shotgun any moment!

Pete.

brewzer
12-26-2014, 08:54 AM
If you decide you want to replace the impeller I have the parts. - Wally

Neil
12-26-2014, 12:43 PM
Hi Roger, I am indeed in the Southern Hemisphere and it's hot - it's eighty but feels like 100 for some reason. That green won't last long as it's starting to dry off and in two weeks everything will be brown - the eastern side of the island doesn't get much summer precipitation so the stock trucks are already starting to move animals to greener pastures. Irrigators are going full bore although my father hasn't cranked his up yet - he stocks one cow to the acre (5 acres, 5 cows : ) but also grazes the long acre (roadside) so that helps keep a lid on things.

Hi Pete, yes that's exactly what it's for. It has a winding wheel that sits on a small frame straddling the fuel tank, some 1/4 rope from the sheave to the top edge of the blade. The blade is a nice unit that's not too heavy but it's still pretty tricky getting an even grade due to the ag configuration of the front idlers. I'll get some more photos and post them later today.

Thanks Wally, I'll test the thermostat first as I'm guessing that's likely where the issue is, but there is evidence that the water pump has/is leaking so it'll need an overhaul. I'll pull it and see if folks think it needs replacing.

The plan is to put it in a 20' container along with some other junk that I have down there and bring it home to restore - not the paint job but things like the main bearings, valve guides, clutch throwout bearings, etc. I'm hoping that there'll be a production run of new exhaust manifolds in the near-future (do we know, Jeff, if that's scheduled?)

puffer@rpi.edu
12-26-2014, 01:13 PM
Checked out my 22 today and either the thermostat is not opening or the pump is not pumping. Mike: did you find out what the opening temperature for that replacement part number is?
Had a successful day today - started the 22 after towing it around with the Ferg to warm it up (just like running it with a pony on compression). Fired up nicely and both steering clutches were free, however the main was stuck. I stuck it in first and drove about 30' and it broke free so I am very happy about that. Video of it idling - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1W_chPiW9KA

Neil, great sounding 22. Hoep to have mine running (not moving) by the end of the winter. Ray

janmeermans
12-26-2014, 02:30 PM
That nice, low idle sounds just wonderful. That is a neat looking Twenty Two. The video is a bit like looking through the keyhole. Feels like I snuck over the fence and am trying not to get caught, looking at yellow pornography!

I'm really interested in the nifty sheave at the top of the radiator. It looks like maybe a solution to lift a blade? Need more pics, but am afraid to re-watch the video because the farmer may come around the side of the barn with the double barrel shotgun any moment!

Pete.

Garlic,

I took a second look and the farmer with the gun never showed. My teasing Neil about the snow in Rochester gave him a thought to put a blower on his Cat. The hoist sheave can be a part of that.

Neil- As others have said, you have a good sounding 22 there. Interesting concept of getting it "home". I have a hard time thinking of transporting one around CA let alone from some island in the Southern Hemisphere.

Jan (ex Olean guy)

Mike Meyer
12-26-2014, 02:34 PM
Checked out my 22 today and either the thermostat is not opening or the pump is not pumping. Mike: did you find out what the opening temperature for that replacement part number is?
Had a successful day today - started the 22 after towing it around with the Ferg to warm it up (just like running it with a pony on compression). Fired up nicely and both steering clutches were free, however the main was stuck. I stuck it in first and drove about 30' and it broke free so I am very happy about that. Video of it idling - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1W_chPiW9KA

Hi Neil, That 22 sounds great, I ended up buying a aftermarket thermostat for my 22's that opens at 180F. It must be nice to be home again for a visit, I bet your Dad is enjoying seeing you again.
Regards
Mike

Neil
12-26-2014, 06:07 PM
Heh, Mike he is, because he has a list a mile long of stuff that needs doing around the place. Luckily my nephew's are also here so the muttons are already done and the firewood is split : ) Did you just pack out the thermostat with enough gasket paper so that it sat in there nicely?

Jan - I used to work in a muffler shop so all the old junk around there all has stainless exhausts : ) It does quiet it down nicely - I had the Kenworth running as well (in the background with that aluminum headboard) and it reminded me why I like mufflers : ) I think the plan will be to put the 22 and the old man's LandRover and Lister in the container and send it home.

Ray - when I get the 22 home, I'll need to come see you for advice on rebabbitting and line-boring the main bearings and whatnot, as your 22 is well along the process of being restored that this one needs.

Here're some more pictures - I'll get one of the blade as well:

48426
48427
48428
48429
48430
48431
48432

old-iron-habit
12-26-2014, 07:49 PM
Neil, Are you a little concerned about being admitted to the insane museum for even planning on bringing a Cat home from the islands. Seems everyone else wants to take them from here to there. Be careful, it might be a crime to sneak one back home. LOL

Mike Meyer
12-26-2014, 10:54 PM
Hi Neil, I haven't fitted those new thermostats yet but will probably get a washer or sleeve made of bronze or stainless steel to fill the space, the old thermostat is 66mm in diameter, the new Stant # 45478 thermostat I've bought is 63mm, so 3mm to pack out, I was looking at the Stant catalogue online this morning and they list a 66mm thermostat that opens at 180F (# ST24-180) which should work too with a little modification with a angle grinder, it has a second smaller valve 37mm in diameter below the main valve that I reckon could be trimmed so it didn't influence the water flow.

It sure does seem a shame to take a good 22 all the way from New Zealand back to the USA when you can buy good runners Stateside for what, around $2,000, there can't be that many 22's in NZ and it would have a interesting bit of local history I'm assuming, where is your Dad located? I'd be more tempted to take a couple of older Landcruisers back, they would make outstanding hunting rigs, all my Californian mates run CJ7 Jeeps for hunting and they are OK if you don't want to drive far, but every time they go more than 100 miles, particularly down the Baja Peninsula in Mexico, things just start breaking from the front to the back on those Jeeps, from the wheels up, must be the nuts behind the steering wheel.:eyebrows:
Regards
Mike

Neil
12-26-2014, 11:28 PM
Funny you mention that about numbers Mike - I'm cleaning out my old junk and came across a listing of tractors sold by Gough, Gough, and Hamer, the NZ Caterpillar agents from time immemorial. It's thousands and thousands of units - literally. The 5U listing seems like all 17k that Cat made - obviously not but you get the idea. It's on paper right now so I'm going to see if I can OCR it in because it would make a huge addition to Erik's registry. Starts with Two-Tons and goes up through D6Ds. The sheaf of paper is about an inch thick of A4/letter size.
Anyhoo, I'm going to send a container of my stuff home so the 22 will fit in that along with the Series 1 LandRover and 6/1 Lister : ) I'd much rather have it with me than down here because I hardly ever come down this way and I can't stand to think of it not being looked after (sheepish grin...)

Neil
12-26-2014, 11:30 PM
Roger, I have a certificate that says "Certified not insane", or something like that - I'm not sure as they don't often let me out to take a look at it

drujinin
12-27-2014, 06:52 AM
I remember 2 weeks or so ago, you said in a post you were sitting in an Airport, unfortunately I was thinking "Work" not "Home" flight.
I admit, I forgot you told me you were going soon!
I'll check to see if 22 Manifolds are on the List as you are the second person that asked about them.

Now back to the subject of the impellor, you guys are right about maybe repro's need to be made shameful to think it, but unless "one size fits all".
I think it would be a niche market consequently a slow seller.

Seen as Jan stated ex-Olean guy, then I'll say ex-Allegany guy!