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Masic
02-14-2017, 10:50 PM
Hello all and bare with me, I am new to the forum.

Just picked up this unit and am looking for any direction to get her in restored condition. It runs well and starts up pretty good for it's age and with 8557hrs (lol counter probably rolled over a few times) but there is a pop in the exhaust every now and then like a misfire????

The foot controls are only activating at almost full pedal movement so am wondering if there are any checks I can do to see if anything needs adjustment or replacement.

The hand controls feel good and positive.

The main engine throttle is easy on apply and stiff as all hell for movement to drop the rpm.

Main clutch starts to grab within the first 3" (at the top) of hand lever pull and feels positive.

The transmission shifts well and gives no indication of issues.

Forward/reverse lever also feels good on shifting.

The hydraulics are noisy and a little weak but the blade does lift and has power to life a heavy load but not as smooth as one would think.

I haven't ran one of these before so I cannot compare it to any history of my own for operating. I will post pictures as soon as I learn how

I would like to change out the injectors only because my thinking is newer is better (are they still available?) or should disassemble? I have an old crack tester for injectors and could make it work somehow. Are these injectors adjustable like found in old tractors?

I will need track rollers x2 for now and more later as they wear (are they still available?)

The slider chain is decent and seems to have a lot of meat left in them but the pads are starting to thin out. None are cracked or broken but the leading edges are chipped. Sprockets look pretty new and in good shape. The idlers were welded and recut.

The intake manifold is rusty and am worried that the pony exhaust tube may be perforated to the main engine manifold (am only guessing that it should be a solid pony tube within the intake manifold for intake air preheat reasons)

To make this post shorter I will end it here and hope for the best

Walt D7-3T
02-15-2017, 01:15 AM
Welcome and may I make a recommendation.

It is always good to include your location in your profile so in case you need someone with experience that may wish to check this Cat out for you, they will know where your are. You just may be fortunate to have such a person in the same town you are or nearby.

old-iron-habit
02-15-2017, 07:21 AM
I would not be in a hurry to change injectors. If the machine has set for a while it might just need some good work and run enough to burn the old fuel up and run on new a bit. These engines are designed to work. Idling a lot or working at a lower RPM tends to gum things up and even causes slobbering on the exhaust stack. I would work the heck out of it for a few hours making sure the temputature gets up there good and then see how it runs. I'm sure others will chime in. We all look forward to pictures. Overshot loaders are not real common and even more scarce in the D6 size.

Neil
02-15-2017, 08:29 AM
Seconding what Roger wrote, work it hard - not doing loader work but steady continuous drawbar work if you can organize it. You want it burning hot continously for an extended period. This also has the benefit of showing up any weaknesses in other areas so you can put them on the to-do list : ) Before you do, check that your breathers on the engine and transmission to make sure they're clean and operational so that any moisture can exit the case as it boils off.

ccjersey
02-15-2017, 10:37 AM
Hello all and bare with me, I am new to the forum.

Just picked up this unit and am looking for any direction to get her in restored condition. It runs well and starts up pretty good for it's age and with 8557hrs (lol counter probably rolled over a few times) but there is a pop in the exhaust every now and then like a misfire????

The foot controls are only activating at almost full pedal movement so am wondering if there are any checks I can do to see if anything needs adjustment or replacement.

The hand controls feel good and positive.

The main engine throttle is easy on apply and stiff as all hell for movement to drop the rpm.

Main clutch starts to grab within the first 3" (at the top) of hand lever pull and feels positive.

The transmission shifts well and gives no indication of issues.

Forward/reverse lever also feels good on shifting.

The hydraulics are noisy and a little weak but the blade does lift and has power to life a heavy load but not as smooth as one would think.

I haven't ran one of these before so I cannot compare it to any history of my own for operating. I will post pictures as soon as I learn how

I would like to change out the injectors only because my thinking is newer is better (are they still available?) or should disassemble? I have an old crack tester for injectors and could make it work somehow. Are these injectors adjustable like found in old tractors?

I will need track rollers x2 for now and more later as they wear (are they still available?)

The slider chain is decent and seems to have a lot of meat left in them but the pads are starting to thin out. None are cracked or broken but the leading edges are chipped. Sprockets look pretty new and in good shape. The idlers were welded and recut.

The intake manifold is rusty and am worried that the pony exhaust tube may be perforated to the main engine manifold (am only guessing that it should be a solid pony tube within the intake manifold for intake air preheat reasons)

To make this post shorter I will end it here and hope for the best

Since you have the tester, you could certainly test the injectors, but I think I would hold off as others have mentioned already. I think I would start by getting it hot and adjusting the valves. First we should check that your tractor really is a 1942. Can you post a serial number off engine block or rear end of tractor above drawbar support. The 4R and 5R tractors had the D4600 engine with high pressure injectors which can be easily identified by the fuel return manifold that is attached to the top of each injector and connects to a line returning to the tank. The newer tractors (1947 on) were the U series and have the D318 with low pressure capsule type injectors which are obvious because there is only a fuel supply connection and no return manifold. Another obvious difference is removing the old style takes a special socket with a hole on the side. These can be made by cutting a 3/4 drive socket in half and welding in a piece of pipe before trimming out the window for the fuel line nipple.

I think you want to see the high pressure injectors crack at about 1750 psi and of course atomize fuel well and cut off clean with no dripping. Bill Walter is a ACMOC member who rebuilds and adjusts those old high pressure injectors professionally.

Other general notes,
injector pump has its own oil supply, Check on side fill with motor oil.
Pony motor pinion also has its own oil supply. Check plug on side, fill plug on top, motor oil or ATF if you have trouble with the pinion grinding even while holding the clutch lever back during the shift. This oil also lubes the pony camshaft gears, magneto drive etc, so its important for more than the pinion.

Brakes probably should not be adjusted so tight they catch right at the top, but sounds like yours can be tightened some. Work through the covers on each side of steering booster under the seat. Also a good idea to drain both steering clutch compartments and the main clutch since they may have oil accumulated from the engine or gear compartment seals leaking.

Masic
02-15-2017, 11:27 AM
I've added my location (Sundre Alberta Canada) and have added 2 photos in my album. Thanks for all of your replies. I'm going to get started working on this machine today. Let me know if you want additional photos. I will search for the s/n right away

Masic
02-15-2017, 02:03 PM
Serial number 4R 1231SP
6 cylinder

rmyram
02-15-2017, 04:54 PM
interesting, where did you pick it up? i have 5r189 and bought it in cremona from the original owners. i grew up down there. I still have a brush cutter for it down there that hasn't been relocated yet


i know some folks in your neck of the woods that are into old cats but aren't on the forums.

I had a 9u that had an odd pop in the exhaust, turned out to be a bent push rod (i suspect ether bunny caused it) i wouldn't worry about injectors yet. change the thremostats and it will run at proper temp, really helps clean them up. working under load helps as well. change the injection pump oil and the pony engine oil as has already been stated. my old 5r starts good at all temps above and below freezing without ether, and it has a significant amount of blowby. get the main engine cranking on the pony with no fuel and on compression, when the head of the diesel is nice and warm to touch, crack the diesel fuel to about 1/2 throttle and she should fire right up. turn the pony gas off and let it run out of fuel, never use the mag kill switch.

your undercarriage should be interchangeable with the 8u/9u series so keep an eye out for one of them as they can be a part source for you. i have a 9u that is partially dismantled for parts if you need some, there is usually a pickup between my place and yours about 3 or 4 times a year, if your patient, freight can be arranged pretty cheap.

the 4r is the wide guage unit so is a little bit more desirable than the narrow guage 5r series.

if you uploaded pics to your gallery, add them to your post so we can see them. there is an instruction sticky in bulletin board operations http://www.acmoc.org/bb/showthread.php?288-How-to-Post-Pictures-on-the-BB

657cat
02-15-2017, 06:54 PM
I was wondering if that is the one that was on Kijiji awhile ago near Edmonton. If it is it looked fairly nice in the pictures

Masic
02-15-2017, 07:39 PM
This is the one that was for sale near Edmonton. The family told me that they have owned it since they bought it after its duty was over with building the Alaska highway. They gave me a PDF scan of the original photos of their grand dad using it in 1946 on private land and their dad who has been on it since he was 14. He just passed at 80 years old this the sale. Neat history for sure

This one came with the overshot bucket, blade with added shroud extension above the blade and a mad max looking brush cutter

Masic
02-15-2017, 07:46 PM
interesting, where did you pick it up? i have 5r189 and bought it in cremona from the original owners. i grew up down there. I still have a brush cutter for it down there that hasn't been relocated yet


i know some folks in your neck of the woods that are into old cats but aren't on the forums.

I had a 9u that had an odd pop in the exhaust, turned out to be a bent push rod (i suspect ether bunny caused it) i wouldn't worry about injectors yet. change the thremostats and it will run at proper temp, really helps clean them up. working under load helps as well. change the injection pump oil and the pony engine oil as has already been stated. my old 5r starts good at all temps above and below freezing without ether, and it has a significant amount of blowby. get the main engine cranking on the pony with no fuel and on compression, when the head of the diesel is nice and warm to touch, crack the diesel fuel to about 1/2 throttle and she should fire right up. turn the pony gas off and let it run out of fuel, never use the mag kill switch.

your undercarriage should be interchangeable with the 8u/9u series so keep an eye out for one of them as they can be a part source for you. i have a 9u that is partially dismantled for parts if you need some, there is usually a pickup between my place and yours about 3 or 4 times a year, if your patient, freight can be arranged pretty cheap.

the 4r is the wide guage unit so is a little bit more desirable than the narrow guage 5r series.

if you uploaded pics to your gallery, add them to your post so we can see them. there is an instruction sticky in bulletin board operations http://www.acmoc.org/bb/showthread.php?288-How-to-Post-Pictures-on-the-BB

Thanks for the reply. Good to know that you're close. I have started tearing into it from the rear forward. I have removed the inspection covers at the very back and could see the steering brake bands. They both have just over 5/16" material all the way around. Other than a bit of moisture and an inch of mud at the bottom (no oil) it looks good in there. Anything that I should look out for inside the brake band area? There are drain plugs at the bottom of both sides but no oil so I'm guessing that no oil should be in there.

What oil should I use in the final drives? Hyd tank? Transmission and what other areas?

I will need an upper track roller for the front right hand side. Any thoughts on tightening the tracks? The tin over the track adjustment is packed full of mud underneith and pitted on top.

I will check out the instructions for uploading the photos on this thread

old-iron-habit
02-15-2017, 08:49 PM
Your D6 was built in 1943 according to the ACMOC track-type machines book.

If you are not going to be working in water the accepted practice is to pull the plugs on the bottom of the brake compartments, drill a small hole in each one and insert a loose fitting cotter key. That will let moisture drain as it collects helping keep the steering clutched and brakes from sticking. The cotter keys will rattle around keeping the hole from plugging in the plug. If you don't have manuals you should look for a set that will cover your serial number. They will pay for themselves many times over on preventative maintenance. You will need operators manual, parts book, and servicemen's maintenance manual. The engine book is usually separate. eBay is often a good source.

rmyram
02-15-2017, 10:41 PM
im not close anymore, i moved to northeast bc about 11 years ago, brought my cat with me.

the finals probably have gear oil in them, if they do, add some more, 80w90 is ok. the transmission and bevel gear housing more than likely have gear oil as well. you can tell by the smell.

if they don't have gear oil then they probably have 30 weight engine oil. when i rebuilt the one 9u that i used to have i filled all compartments with straight 30 weight from co-op, it was cheapest oil i could find. oils can be a big debate. the appropriate response is "follow the manufacturers specifications"........... i'm running synthetic gear oil in my tranny and bevel gear and final drives on my 5r, and 0w40 in the engine, and 15w40 in the injection pump, and 0w30 in the pony. i put atf in the pony clutch. i'm also running regular transmission hydraulic gear oil (valpar brand) in the beegee hydraulic system. i'm not recommending you or anyone else do that, just sharing that that is what i do and i haven't had any issues so far.


OIH is giving good advice, find a set of manuals, D4C charlie on this forum was a good source for manuals, send him a PM and see if he has any. ebay is next best place,

the engine manual is a separate book, then there is a parts manual, and a servicemans reference, and an operators manual. they are a good read if your new to owning an antique cat.

the 5r parts book that i have does not say it is for a 4r tractor but the only difference would be the final drive axles, housings, dead axles, and the track frame. the rest of the parts are interchangeable. it has the form number UE032255, replaces form 9005
operators instructions 4r1-up, 5r1-up form 7866
operators instructions 4r1-4r3633, 5r1-5r5515 form number 8719c
4 1/4"bore servicemans refernce for diesel engines - form number 30519 d4600 industrial, d4600 electric set, d4600 marine, d6 tractor, no. 12 motor grader
servicemans reference for d6 tractor form 7861-A
servicemans reference 4r1-4r3633, 5r1-5r5515 form number 7861-C
servicemans reference 4r, 5r, 8u, 9u tractor form fe030027-04

those are all the numbers i can come up with to help your search.

Masic
02-16-2017, 01:36 AM
Thanks guys for all of your help and guidance. Looks like I'm in the right place.

Will be checking eBay very soon. Anyone have filter numbers handy?

Masic
02-16-2017, 01:37 AM
Your D6 was built in 1943 according to the ACMOC track-type machines book.

If you are not going to be working in water the accepted practice is to pull the plugs on the bottom of the brake compartments, drill a small hole in each one and insert a loose fitting cotter key. That will let moisture drain as it collects helping keep the steering clutched and brakes from sticking. The cotter keys will rattle around keeping the hole from plugging in the plug. If you don't have manuals you should look for a set that will cover your serial number. They will pay for themselves many times over on preventative maintenance. You will need operators manual, parts book, and servicemen's maintenance manual. The engine book is usually separate. eBay is often a good source.

So I take it that it's safe to wash out this area, let dry and perform the drain plug mods as per your note. Thanks for the idea, will perform the mods tomorrow

ag-mike
02-16-2017, 07:54 AM
Anyone have filter numbers handy?

mods prob done in the past. photo up what u have. u ain't gonna get away without pics of this ol' girl.

ccjersey
02-16-2017, 09:05 AM
On the oil filters, AgMike is right. Best to take out what is in there and buy replacements.

The problem is the filter technology changed rapidly from the 30's to the 50's and CAT offered and encouraged the installation of changeover kits to upgrade older machines to newer types and finally to the full flow filters we are used to using today. Some were not converted, so the filter numbers in the parts book would still be applicable and sometimes someone came up with their own conversions with varying degrees of success. Probably best to take filters out and lay it out in order to take a picture so folks here can look it over to see if its right.

Masic
02-16-2017, 10:12 AM
65608

65609

65610

65611

ag-mike
02-16-2017, 10:16 AM
what a monster for its day!!!!!!! are there any others out there guys? gotta be a bitch 2 work on. thanks.

old-iron-habit
02-16-2017, 02:14 PM
Thats what I was saying. A D6 overshot is way cool. I have only seen D4 ones on Caterpilars and seen an Alllis one once that was about D4 size. Wonder what it spent its life loading?

Masic
02-16-2017, 11:42 PM
Drained the rear drain plug that's found underneith at the back and above the draw bar. Where is this filled from? I'm guessing from inside of the cab just ahead of the throttle control or basically at centre of the unit.
The oil came out dark in color like a dark beer but still seemed to be good, dumped it anyway in the used oil tote. Do I just fill it until it's seen on the dipstick?

Drained the final drives and the oil was the same. Dark but still good. I borescoped the final drives and what I could get to at the drawbar drain plug. All looks clean and gear teeth in good shape.

Cleaned out the belly pans from dirt and a little oil. I am missing the centre belly pan and would like to buy one if it is available. The welded gusset in the belly pans do not allow draining so I torched out a 1"x3" drain path in each lower gusset and a 1"x2" in the higher one on the front pan. This should allow at least draining of fluids like water.

How do you drain the oil found on the top steering box located just under the fuel tank? That oil looks good also but was a tad bit low (1/2") below the 1/4"npt plug.

I removed the clutch inspection cover found at centre of cab just below the fire wall. Looks good inside but does have some mud at the bottom. It's drain plug was drilled and it did get plugged off with soil. I did the cotter pin trick with the 3 plugs (clutch plug and steering brake plugs)

There are drain valves on the pony engine below the heads. What are they for? Also on the engine @ left side front as viewed from the seat there is an assembly bolted to the engine just ahead of the fuel injection pump (see photo). There is a valve (facing the rad) that can Ben turned with a wheel type knob. When removed, it's a wheel, threaded stem and what looks like a needle at the end of the screw. Any ideas?

65621

Masic
02-17-2017, 12:09 AM
Added temporary paint to her until I can get through this summer and make it a winter paint project for later this year and after I worked her to find all of the bugs if any. So far so good! Here are some pics for the hell of it. For you yellow guys out there, remember it's only temporary lol

65618
65619
65620

Walt D7-3T
02-17-2017, 12:20 AM
OK, so you posted some pictures of the inside of your shed/barn... Oh Wait. Now I see your Cat dressed in camouflage.. Great job... ;););););)

Masic
02-17-2017, 12:24 AM
Lmao!!! I really didn't like the custom rust job on it so tons of sanding, a bunch of different wire wheels, gallons of thinner and some old Carc paint I had laying around. Now I can't see it hahahahaha

drujinin
02-17-2017, 06:33 AM
Valves on the bottom of pony heads are to drain gas out of cylinders when you flood it.
Hand Wheel with Needle is a bleeder for fuel filters. Should be another half moon shaped bolt sticking out above or below it that is a fuel bleeder also. One bleeds the outer (dirty fuel)side of filters and the other(Hand Wheel) bleeds the inner (clean fuel)side of filters.
Pretty sure the KIJI link has been posted on here in the past 6 months?

657cat
02-17-2017, 06:41 AM
http://www.acmoc.org/bb/showthread.php?26407-FOR-SALE-D6-Hoover-Overshot&highlight=Hoover+overshot

Here it is

rmyram
02-17-2017, 09:13 AM
if your working in sticks you will want to weld your drain holes back up, little trees have a habit of spring up and through little holes and can go through a rad in no time. if your only doing dirt work you will be fine.

i have a set of belly pans for a 9u which will fit, pm me if your interested.

remove the rear cover on the bevel gear housing, it is hexagonal in shape and has six bolts holding it in place, and you will find the drain for the steering clutch booster. if you have a rear pto, or a rear hydraulic pump, you will have to remove it to drain the steering booster. i just looked at your pics again and you don't have a rear mounted pump or pto so it is nice and easy for you. if the transmission and bevel gear compartments are full of oil you will have to drain it down to remove the hexagonal cove without getting oil all over the place.

there is a grease nipple on the outside edge of the big steel clutch plate. disengage your clutch, put the diesel on start and roll it over by hand to find the grease nipple. it greases the bearing at the centre of that plate and is often overlooked when servicing. there is another grease nipple near the sliding yoke in the clutch as well.

the bevel gear housing fills through the plug under the throttle lever, it has to flow through the pinion gear bearings to get into the bevel gear housing, there is also a drain on the bottom of the transmission. if you only drained the bevel gear housing (the rear plug above the drawbar) then more oil will have migrated into the bevel gear housing over night.

if i remember correctely, it takes about 10 gallons for the transmission and the bevel gear housing. the dipstick should be by your left heel and is in the bevel gear housing compartment. someone should be able to post the capacity from the manual. drain both the transmission and bevel gear compartment, then add the appropriate amount of oil to the transmission, the following morning it should be leveled out and be at the full mark on the dipstick.

the little drains on the pony cylinders are handy if you flood it. when i start mine i do the following:

check oil
turn gas on
set choke to full choke
set throttle on pony to about 1/4 throttle.
make sure diesel throttle is in "off" position
put diesel compresion release in "start" position
open pony cylinder drain clocks.
magneto switch in "on" position
roll pony over by hand and clear the cylinders of any oil or gas
continue to roll pony over by hand, after two or three revolutions it usually pops out each petcock when the make clicks.
close petcocks and wrap rope around pony flywheel.
one good tug and she starts right up.

when you get your pony tuned up real good, you can close the petcocks and roll the flywheel over by hand with out a rope and it will catch an run. they are a pretty neat little engine.

you will probably want to remove the pony heads at some point and steam out the cooling passages, i have taken apart 4 ponys on a a d6 and every one of them was half full of crud. i have also been involved or consulted on a few d2 and d4 pony motors and they all had the same issue with the cooling passages being plugged up as well.

Ray54
02-17-2017, 10:19 AM
Glad to see a rare beast such as this being saved.


I spent part of my young years on 4R 100 dodging walnut trees (rows were very much imaginary in places). Very dusty and the open master clutch could get very tight. The trick I was taught was to put a little oil on the linkage everyday when servicing. And the rest of the procedure is was to wash oil off every 3rd day with a little gas(the good old days of less than a$1 a gallon)and then start fresh with oil. The 8u and 9u with a cover don't seem to have problem of dust building up,I wonder if the covers could be fitted to the earlier model?



From pictures it looks like there could be a pin missing or is changed to a different position to change from loading dirt to just pushing it. Also hard to see in the grass but is the bottom part of the bucket remove to just push dirt?

Masic
02-17-2017, 04:00 PM
if your working in sticks you will want to weld your drain holes back up, little trees have a habit of spring up and through little holes and can go through a rad in no time. if your only doing dirt work you will be fine.

i have a set of belly pans for a 9u which will fit, pm me if your interested.

remove the rear cover on the bevel gear housing, it is hexagonal in shape and has six bolts holding it in place, and you will find the drain for the steering clutch booster. if you have a rear pto, or a rear hydraulic pump, you will have to remove it to drain the steering booster. i just looked at your pics again and you don't have a rear mounted pump or pto so it is nice and easy for you. if the transmission and bevel gear compartments are full of oil you will have to drain it down to remove the hexagonal cove without getting oil all over the place.

there is a grease nipple on the outside edge of the big steel clutch plate. disengage your clutch, put the diesel on start and roll it over by hand to find the grease nipple. it greases the bearing at the centre of that plate and is often overlooked when servicing. there is another grease nipple near the sliding yoke in the clutch as well.

the bevel gear housing fills through the plug under the throttle lever, it has to flow through the pinion gear bearings to get into the bevel gear housing, there is also a drain on the bottom of the transmission. if you only drained the bevel gear housing (the rear plug above the drawbar) then more oil will have migrated into the bevel gear housing over night.

if i remember correctely, it takes about 10 gallons for the transmission and the bevel gear housing. the dipstick should be by your left heel and is in the bevel gear housing compartment. someone should be able to post the capacity from the manual. drain both the transmission and bevel gear compartment, then add the appropriate amount of oil to the transmission, the following morning it should be leveled out and be at the full mark on the dipstick.

the little drains on the pony cylinders are handy if you flood it. when i start mine i do the following:

check oil
turn gas on
set choke to full choke
set throttle on pony to about 1/4 throttle.
make sure diesel throttle is in "off" position
put diesel compresion release in "start" position
open pony cylinder drain clocks.
magneto switch in "on" position
roll pony over by hand and clear the cylinders of any oil or gas
continue to roll pony over by hand, after two or three revolutions it usually pops out each petcock when the make clicks.
close petcocks and wrap rope around pony flywheel.
one good tug and she starts right up.

when you get your pony tuned up real good, you can close the petcocks and roll the flywheel over by hand with out a rope and it will catch an run. they are a pretty neat little engine.

you will probably want to remove the pony heads at some point and steam out the cooling passages, i have taken apart 4 ponys on a a d6 and every one of them was half full of crud. i have also been involved or consulted on a few d2 and d4 pony motors and they all had the same issue with the cooling passages being plugged up as well.

Wicked write up and thanks a million!!!! I must be lucky because I have followed your start procedure without even know what to do before your write up. When I rolled the pony engine over by hand once, it started and I almost lost my thumb between the flywheel and firewall. The off switch isn't even connected and is of no use at all. Might connect it for thumbs sake!!!

Thanks once again!!

Masic
02-17-2017, 04:12 PM
Gave Lucy (called her Lucy) a bath today in great detail. Drained the engine oil, coolant, pony oil and injector pump oil. I did replace the oils with Delo brand oil in the weights mentioned here, online and past experience. I went wit tools over all bolts and found only a few loose. I have the thermostat housing off right now and am sourcing a replacement. The engine oil filters are also out. They have no number on them that I can find. The bell that fits on top of the pair have both a nut at the top with a slot machines out of them. They were tough to remove!!!! A little rusty. I painted the engine in olive green just to trace the leakage in the future.

The exhaust popping is sporadic and has lessened in frequency but the engine wouldn't produce heat and I blame the thermostat

Rad was flushed along with the motor as best as able without a tear down. Will look into removing the pony engine heads to clean out the water galleries when a gasket kit is found.

Any thoughts on steering pedal play for adjustment? Sorry to ask so many questions in such short time of owning and without my own reference material of my own.

Masic
02-17-2017, 04:23 PM
Glad to see a rare beast such as this being saved.


I spent part of my young years on 4R 100 dodging walnut trees (rows were very much imaginary in places). Very dusty and the open master clutch could get very tight. The trick I was taught was to put a little oil on the linkage everyday when servicing. And the rest of the procedure is was to wash oil off every 3rd day with a little gas(the good old days of less than a$1 a gallon)and then start fresh with oil. The 8u and 9u with a cover don't seem to have problem of dust building up,I wonder if the covers could be fitted to the earlier model?



From pictures it looks like there could be a pin missing or is changed to a different position to change from loading dirt to just pushing it. Also hard to see in the grass but is the bottom part of the bucket remove to just push dirt?

I hit every grease nipple on the mochine!! On blind pins, I had to replace the nipples and drill out the dirt in the grease passage. Flushed the grease area out with varsol under pressure and with a dc to hyd pump. Made a mess in the shop. When I greased the problem areas (mostly at pins for the blade function) they took grease and tons of it. I used a marine grade thick high pressure grease

If you have the centre belly pan and track adjustment covers. I would definitely be interested if the price was right. Will PM the track tension adjustment will be a tough one to free up!! The area was never cleaned and rusted pretty badly.

The pin question. Right now and as pictured, the unit has a push blade with an extension wall welded above the actual blade. The material bucket isn't installed. The material bucket was quickly installed last night just to see where the stiff arms should be pinned in. You are correct. The blade is pinned in for pushing dirt. With the bucket installed and a false load consisting of wet snow, the pins would be in a different spot for loading. The plow assembly is installed with the same pin location as the blade. It can be changed to tip down or tip up plowing. In the blade position as pictured, the brush plow sits pretty flat to the ground.

Masic
02-17-2017, 04:26 PM
Oops! Mixed replies about purchase of parts. Texting on the phone it tougher than working on my computer.

Gregness
02-17-2017, 05:51 PM
Lmao!!! I really didn't like the custom rust job on it so tons of sanding, a bunch of different wire wheels, gallons of thinner and some old Carc paint I had laying around. Now I can't see it hahahahaha
Now you can use it for hunting! White tails will never see you coming...

Gregness
02-17-2017, 05:59 PM
Masic , btw I am impressed by the energy, enthusiasm and skills you are applying to saving this old girl and getting her dialed in! You are working about ten times faster than most of us seem to be able to these days. Can't wait to her all dolled up in Cat yellow and doing a demo for us!

Greg

657cat
02-17-2017, 06:55 PM
I have the servicemens reference book that covers the tractor and engine if you are interested
Email me at singleb27@hotmail.com
Bert

drujinin
02-17-2017, 07:17 PM
Just keep going! Your questions will get answered as you go forward. No Worries! These are a great bunch of guys!

Masic
02-17-2017, 08:39 PM
Now you can use it for hunting! White tails will never see you coming...

Ohhhh! Good point :) have to keep it in camo for hunting season

Masic
02-17-2017, 08:54 PM
Masic , btw I am impressed by the energy, enthusiasm and skills you are applying to saving this old girl and getting her dialed in! You are working about ten times faster than most of us seem to be able to these days. Can't wait to her all dolled up in Cat yellow and doing a demo for us!

Greg


Thank you so much!! Pulling wrenches is usually a thankless job and seldom complimented :)

I gave it a good run today, uphill/ down hill, full throttle and pulling an old rusty contraption that looks like a farm field disker but heavier and steel wheels shaped similarily to rail car wheels. I couldn't get it past the cold mark on the temp gauge. Let it cool, drained coolant to be just below the thermostat. Pulled the thermostat and noticed a gap of 1/16" between the valve and valve seat. Compressed the spring and pulled the valve. Set the valve on a 3/4" drive socket as orientated in the body, use a 5/8" 1/2" drive socket to place in the centre of the valve plate and pressed the valve flat again then just past flat. Installed the valve plate and it sits flat and tight in the seat. Put it in a pot of hot water and heated the water temp to see when the valve will open. It just cracks at 163 degF and opens up to about a 3/16" gap at 175 defF. That's where I stopped the test. Cooled it with cold water and verified the valve did seat again. Installed it in Lucy and ran her for a couple hours much the same as earlier mentioned. The coolant temp got to just in the operational green range of the gauge. Verified 174 DegF on the radiator as the hottest spot with a temp gun. I did order a thermostat and this will due until then.

Cleaned out the belly pan yesterday and after today, I filled the trans pan with soft punky rotten wood. Under I go again tomorrow. I definitely need the centre belly pan.

Masic
02-17-2017, 09:02 PM
Valves on the bottom of pony heads are to drain gas out of cylinders when you flood it.
Hand Wheel with Needle is a bleeder for fuel filters. Should be another half moon shaped bolt sticking out above or below it that is a fuel bleeder also. One bleeds the outer (dirty fuel)side of filters and the other(Hand Wheel) bleeds the inner (clean fuel)side of filters.
Pretty sure the KIJI link has been posted on here in the past 6 months?

That wheel deal as mentioned. There is only the wheel type valve and nothing else around it. When I opens the injection pump fill port, I could see that the oil level was good. For the hell of it, I opened up the wheel valve and noticed my oil level in the injection pump rise. Quickly shut in the wheel valve and drained the injection pump to see if it was contaminated with fuel or coolant after opening the wheel valve and the OilWell had to be changed. Could the assembly be a tube and shell oil cooler and I just opened the bleed valve that could be used for purging air from it? It definitely is ported to oil for some reason. There is a square shaft pointing out to the left of this assembly and do degrees to the wheel valve. I don't know what it's for either

Masic
02-17-2017, 09:08 PM
On the oil filters, AgMike is right. Best to take out what is in there and buy replacements.

The problem is the filter technology changed rapidly from the 30's to the 50's and CAT offered and encouraged the installation of changeover kits to upgrade older machines to newer types and finally to the full flow filters we are used to using today. Some were not converted, so the filter numbers in the parts book would still be applicable and sometimes someone came up with their own conversions with varying degrees of success. Probably best to take filters out and lay it out in order to take a picture so folks here can look it over to see if its right.

How can one tell? The filter head is a dual head and mounted with the filter bell to be installed over the filter element from top down. I can see when a person cracks the bells open, there will be oil spilling out unless the filters drain back in the oil pan. The upside down bells have a hex nut on top as seen in high pressure filters for hyd system today. The hex nut also has a machined slot in them making them look like it can be removed with a large screwdriver or flat bar.

Masic
02-17-2017, 09:18 PM
This might be a dumb question. How do you steer the beast properly? You almost have to be a heavy metal drummer to steer it in second gear. Not even going to think about 3rd and 4th gear. It seems like my limbs are never in a resr position unless I'm only going straight lol. I've been pulling the stick in the direction I want to go and follow up with a gentle press of the foot control in the same direction. Turns on a dime. Is this right?

ag-mike
02-17-2017, 09:37 PM
How can one tell? The filter head is a dual head and mounted with the filter bell to be installed over the filter element from top down. I can see when a person cracks the bells open, there will be oil spilling out unless the filters drain back in the oil pan. The upside down bells have a hex nut on top as seen in high pressure filters for hyd system today. The hex nut also has a machined slot in them making them look like it can be removed with a large screwdriver or flat bar.

take it off, oil drains down. sounds like u got upgraded full flow filters. u'll see number to call napa with.

ag-mike
02-17-2017, 09:41 PM
This might be a dumb question. How do you steer the beast properly? You almost have to be a heavy metal drummer to steer it in second gear. Not even going to think about 3rd and 4th gear. It seems like my limbs are never in a resr position unless I'm only going straight lol. I've been pulling the stick in the direction I want to go and follow up with a gentle press of the foot control in the same direction. Turns on a dime. Is this right?

basically yes, but only use the brake when its really necessary. keep ur foot off. when u got a blade load it'll steer without brake use. u got operator instruction manual?

***********
i'll add here what i learnt early on from a cat geezer from here. if u feather turn u wear brake linings more than jabbing the pedal. "plan ur turn with this old crap" "its hard to hurt dirt" he said. this is true with steering clutch use too. pull it to full release. no nursing it. of course this is what cat setup with the engine clutch. snap it in, no nursing, just wears disc.

Masic
02-17-2017, 10:18 PM
take it off, oil drains down. sounds like u got upgraded full flow filters. u'll see number to call napa with.

This is good news :)

Masic
02-17-2017, 10:26 PM
basically yes, but only use the brake when its really necessary. keep ur foot off. when u got a blade load it'll steer without brake use. u got operator instruction manual?

I'm flying blind here. No manuals in any way or form. Just YouTube videos and this forum. So from what you mentioned, the sticks will steer while under load and brakes will exaggerate the steering when coupled with the sticks? So how does it feel to steer with the hand controls without a load? Going through my field today, when I pull the hand controls with blade up and no load, the unit does turn but it's like a 200 foot radius but with the brake coupled with the steering, it pivots on the braking track. So under load with the hand controls would it steer in a more positive response? I'm just worried that the steer box may be faulty or weak or something. When I was looking for a full port, I did notice a slotted cap in the hole under the seat. My guess is that it's a relief of some sort of a pressure set. Am I close with my thoughts? Could this be a reason why it steers unresponsively when using the hand controls only?

rmyram
02-17-2017, 10:30 PM
the pony head gaskets are re-useable, phone finning, they have the gaskets and the thermostats, and their decently priced. union tractor is also a good supplier of parts. if the coolant is out, now is the time to flush it. you really need to get a manual to understand how the coolant flows so you can clean it out properly. there is a passage between the two horizontal cylinders that is cast in to the block of the pony under the cylinders, it will very likely be mostly plugged lots of pressure washing and diggging around with stiff wire to get them passages clean. if you filled the cooling sytem with citric acid for a day or two it would loosen stuff up. we did that on a 955 once, went tto the IGA in Sundre and got a bunch of expired non-sweetened, not from concentrate orange juice. filled the cooling system up and wnet out and worked it for a while got it warmed up pretty good, then brought it back to the yard and dumped the coolant with the engine running and a garden hose in the filler spout, that stuff came out black, we ran it circulating until the water came out of everything clear.



the adjustment procedure reads as follows for setting the brakes up.

tighten the adjuster screw (the large one between the two band halves) i think it is 15/16 wrench size, go buy a 5 dollar wrench from napa, canadian tire, or bumper to bumper and cut it down to make it easier about 6 inches long is plenty

sorry...got off on a tangent.

tighten the band adjuster screw so that the pedal holds the band tight to the drum with about 3/4 of the travel of the pedal, hold the pedal down and adjust the small adjuster bolt in the bottom of the case in until the band is held tight to the bottom of the drum. back the small adjuster screw out 1 1/2 turns to prevent the brake band from dragging on the brake drum.

if your pedals are using about 3/4 of the travel to engage the brakes they are probably adjusted properly.

rmyram
02-17-2017, 11:01 PM
it is steering normally, the "sticks" are releasing a clutch between the bevel gear and the final drive, there is no differential in a cat of this vintage. it is easier for the undriven track (the one you have the clutch lever pulled back on) to roll ahead then it is to slide sideways across the ground.

when you pull the stick you release the clutch, under load and travelling up hill, it will steer to the side you pulled the clutch on., never dump the clutch back in by letting go of the lever, always engage the clutch like you would any clutch hand or foot operated. when you press the pedal you are applying a brake that stops the track from turning, that is why it will steer on a dime.

in a field where i'm trying not to disturb the grass, i pull the clutch, and then gently apply the brake enough to make it turn a little, then roll forward a few feet and do it again, holding the lever back the whole time, it won't cut such a big rut dong this, you'll get the hang of it.

657 cat has offered the servicmans reference and he is only 45 minutes to 1 1/2 hours from you in Calgary. jump on that offer.

drujinin
02-18-2017, 06:56 AM
If pulling a load, pulling the right steering clutch will make the tractor turn right. If going up hill same thing will happen as the track slows down. If going down hill, pulling the right steering lever back will make the tractor turn left as the track speeds up from not being held back by the tractor! Now when I say turn I don't mean immediately, more of a drift as you are experiencing now.
Make sense?
Can you get a photo of the knurled handwheel you were asking about? Apparently I don't understand which one you were asking about.

ag-mike
02-18-2017, 08:34 AM
get manual, read and understand it. they're on ebay somewhat often. there are more than 1. u'll need the yellow 1's too.

Masic
02-19-2017, 07:00 PM
If pulling a load, pulling the right steering clutch will make the tractor turn right. If going up hill same thing will happen as the track slows down. If going down hill, pulling the right steering lever back will make the tractor turn left as the track speeds up from not being held back by the tractor! Now when I say turn I don't mean immediately, more of a drift as you are experiencing now.
Make sense?
Can you get a photo of the knurled handwheel you were asking about? Apparently I don't understand which one you were asking about.

Here are some photos of the 2 valves in question. I'm guessing that this is a tube and shell oil cooler and one valve purges the coolant side and one purges the oil side.

65670
65671

657cat
02-19-2017, 07:10 PM
Here are some photos of the 2 valves in question. I'm guessing that this is a tube and shell oil cooler and one valve purges the coolant side and one purges the oil side.

65670
65671

That is the fuel filter housing. Those bleed the fuel system.

old-iron-habit
02-19-2017, 07:14 PM
Here are some photos of the 2 valves in question. I'm guessing that this is a tube and shell oil cooler and one valve purges the coolant side and one purges the oil side.

65670
65671

That square can is your fuel filter housing. The knob is a bleeder. Should be one prefilter and one post filter. Get the manuals. It will be the cheapest thing you can buy for yourself and the machine. They will pay for themselves many times over in keeping you from making expensive greenhorn errors. We have all been there.

drujinin
02-19-2017, 07:15 PM
No, your fuel filters are inside of that "tower" as I described previously.
One purges the inside of the filters and the other purges the outside of the filters.
There should be some copper/brass drain lines coming off from there. When you open those with the engine running, you should be making a mess on the floor(after it starts running out of the belly pan). There is another drain line coming off from the injection pump that should be draining weepage/leakage from the injection pumps. These lines may all be tied together and plugged with dirt which is why you saw the oil level rise when you opened one of them.

ag-mike
02-19-2017, 08:03 PM
can he download instruction manual online? anyone 1 know???

Neil
02-19-2017, 08:22 PM
Further to what Jeff wrote, my drain pipe was bent up ( a smooth bend) but had filled with dirt and blocked, so I had to drill it out. Without that, I'm sure the fuel would have gone into the oil via the transfer pump drain.

ag-mike
02-19-2017, 08:26 PM
Further to what Jeff wrote, my drain pipe was bent up ( a smooth bend) but had filled with dirt and blocked, so I had to drill it out. Without that, I'm sure the fuel would have gone into the oil via the transfer pump drain.

my 1st d4 had both lines plugged with dried mud. when i opened 'em up i found out about transfer pump problems along the way.

Masic
02-22-2017, 12:11 AM
Cleaned out the copper lines. Not plugged solid but enough to slow the draining down. Just waiting on filters and hoses. That same photo that I submitted also shows the injectors. Any trick to their removal?

ccjersey
02-22-2017, 08:58 AM
Take a look at this thread. Should be some pictures of the socket modifications required.

www.acmoc.org/bb/showthread.php?7160-Need-D2-3J-Injector-Removal-Tool/page2

ccjersey
02-22-2017, 09:12 AM
When you go to install your new fuel filters, you probably should drain and scrub the filter housing with gasoline or diesel etc, so you start fresh without the accumulated sediment from many years of operation. That stuff can seed the new filters with algae and bacteria that create severe fuel problems if untreated fuel is used. Drain any sediment and water from the tank drain on a regular basis and use fuel treated with a good biocide to avoid problems in the future.

When you open up the filter tower be very careful with the rods that retain the fuel filters to the filter plate. They tend to be very delicate so that dropping one can snap the bottom disk off and its easy to break off the top trying to remove the retaining pin. I usually use a pair of pliers to gently press the pin to one side before grasping it and pulling it out of the rod.

Masic
02-22-2017, 09:24 PM
Opened up the fuel filter housing and removed the filter assembly. Was really pleased with the cavity cleanilyness. There was some paint flakes (yellowish) no sediment on the bottom and filters were a little red from rust externally but internally the colour white ish can still be seen. Blew out the copper lines which were not plugged but not free flowing either. Cleaned and scrubbed the fuel cavity anyway.

Are the fuel filters still available? I found a thermostat state side and am waiting for delivery.

Opened up both air cleaners and found only a tiny bit of sediment (dirt) at the bottom of the pans along with dirty oil. Removed the screen filters and only seen a little bit of smudge on the lower filters. The main engine filter assembly sucked putting back together!! The first filter screen with the cone assembly was the worst of the bunch for buildup but still when pulled, it was pretty see through.

Took the crank mounted pump apart and wasn't pleased to see that the pump side plates were never flipped so I was able to flip them and get some more life out of the pump. The gears were also in good shape. The chain for the couplers will need to be replaced.

Engine oil and filters next then some pony engine work. Drained and replaced the injector oil

Finally I have a manual in my hands! Eager to read!!!

rmyram
02-22-2017, 09:41 PM
filters are readily available,as are the gaskets for the tower and the filter retention plate from finning. there are also filters available at napa, but i found last time i ordered them they were cheaper through finning.

if your pulling the engine oil out i would recommend you open the doors on the oil pan and get any sludge out that may be in there. the new detergent oils will pick it up.

chain coupler should also be readily available at any truck shop, or local ag dealer, when i worked at greenline in olds, we stocked it, and so did the case dealer next door. i wouldn't be surprised if you cold find the double roller chain right in sundre.

i would leave the injectors alone until you have fresh thermostat, fresh oils, new fuel, and set the valves. work it for a bit at operating temperature and it might clean up. no point in going after injectors until you are certain they are causing a problem.

you would be better off setting the lifter height on the injection pump before tearing into the injectors.

Masic
02-22-2017, 10:54 PM
filters are readily available,as are the gaskets for the tower and the filter retention plate from finning. there are also filters available at napa, but i found last time i ordered them they were cheaper through finning.

if your pulling the engine oil out i would recommend you open the doors on the oil pan and get any sludge out that may be in there. the new detergent oils will pick it up.

chain coupler should also be readily available at any truck shop, or local ag dealer, when i worked at greenline in olds, we stocked it, and so did the case dealer next door. i wouldn't be surprised if you cold find the double roller chain right in sundre.

i would leave the injectors alone until you have fresh thermostat, fresh oils, new fuel, and set the valves. work it for a bit at operating temperature and it might clean up. no point in going after injectors until you are certain they are causing a problem.

you would be better off setting the lifter height on the injection pump before tearing into the injectors.

I'm only after the injectors for one reason only - because it's parked and being worked on. I will follow your recommendations and run it first. The odd farting sound (like a misfire) has reduced in frequency and and is now sporadic since I played with the thermostat while waiting for my new one. It is running much smoother now than when I first got it for sure and I am able to make a higher engine temperature. The installed thermostat is pooched.

Napa would have these fuel filters? They are like a typical water filter for a boiler system. A woven tube of yarn for lack of better words. Will check on pricing tomorrow from both places you mentioned. Are the napa ones the same as I described? I was thinking of putting a precleaner fuel filter assembly in the fuel line ahead of the fuel pump. Would that be a good idea or a waste of ??? My thinking is that the pre filter could be a spin on and replaced with a higher frequency and to save the fuel pump. Speaking of fuel pump, is the fuel housing pressurized? Could i put a gauge into the 1/4" port Inc the side just to see the fuel pressure?

My other thought is to add an air filter/precleaner to the main engine air intake tube on top of the oil bath cleaner. I hated cleaning out the canister and will hesitate doing it again lol. Overkill or not a good idea?

drujinin
02-23-2017, 06:33 AM
Some of the guys have installed spin-on fuel filters, so it isn't a bad idea.
Pre-cleaner for the air maybe an overkill but the Ag tractors often have one, so why not?

ag-mike
02-23-2017, 07:05 AM
I'm only after the injectors for one reason only - because it's parked and being worked on. I will follow your recommendations and run it first. The odd farting sound (like a misfire) has reduced in frequency and and is now sporadic since I played with the thermostat while waiting for my new one. It is running much smoother now than when I first got it for sure and I am able to make a higher engine temperature.
*** capsule or valve problem.

Napa would have these fuel filters?
*** yes but less $ online including shipping.

I was thinking of putting a precleaner fuel filter assembly in the fuel line ahead of the fuel pump. Would that be a good idea or a waste of ???
*** great idea especially when u got a dirty rusty fuel tank. it'll help save the pump iffen it ain't already shot from rust. check how full the fuel line from the tank is full of rust.

is the fuel housing pressurized? Could i put a gauge into the 1/4" port Inc the side just to see the fuel pressure?
***yes and yes, there should be a gauge already there.

My other thought is to add an air filter/precleaner to the main engine air intake tube on top of the oil bath cleaner. I hated cleaning out the canister and will hesitate doing it again lol. Overkill or not a good idea?
*** there ain't 1 there already with glass jar? if not get original if u ain't gonna use it 24-7.

ccjersey
02-23-2017, 09:37 AM
The fuel pressure gauge normally goes in the port about half way down the tower that faces the injector pumps. In your picture that port has a plug in it. This gives you a reading of the pressure after the filters so you can tell they are becoming restricted before that starts cutting your power output. The gauges available today are color coded with a red band indicating low pressure. Many engines will not get out of the red while cranking, but will still come up to normal pressure once they start. I have often wondered why the gauges are mounted where the reading cannot be seen while operating the tractor. Seems like the increased fuel demand under load would show up as low pressure quicker than at idle when doing a walk around when you can see the gauge as normally mounted on the front of the filter tower facing sideways.

If you will hold a rag around the connection as you loosen each injector line connection in turn, you can control the spray of fuel while listening for the cylinder that is causing the odd sound. Maybe it has become too intermittent for that to be useful, but you may also find other cylinders that are "weak" and do not affect the idle performance of the engine as much as the good ones. I find it's helpful to key in on the problem areas before going to more detailed diagnostics like injector testing, fuel pump lifter setting, valve clearance etc. Of course there are several things that can affect the performance of each cylinder, but once you know which ones have a problem you can compare results of any testing with other cylinders.

rmyram
02-23-2017, 11:55 AM
I'm only after the injectors for one reason only - because it's parked and being worked on. I will follow your recommendations and run it first. The odd farting sound (like a misfire) has reduced in frequency and and is now sporadic since I played with the thermostat while waiting for my new one. It is running much smoother now than when I first got it for sure and I am able to make a higher engine temperature.
*** capsule or valve problem.

my experience on these old d4600s and the d318s has been that the intake and exhaust clearances are usually not set to spec as they are a bit of a pain to set, so people don't do it, i have had more valve clearance issues than i have had injector problems, i'm not saying the injectors aren't bad, but an intermittent miss in my experience is not a faulty injector, faulty injectors are usually very uniform misses, pops, or knocks, they may go away under load or get worse under load but you can usually always hear it. valve clearance issues or sticky valves on the other hand are more likely to cause an intermittent miss. i also had a d6 that had an intermittent miss and it turned out to be a bent pushrod on one cylinder. the fact that it seems to be getting better with warmer operating temp and use makes me think it is more valve train or carbon buildup related.

Napa would have these fuel filters?
*** yes but less $ online including shipping.

the region masic is in does not have home delivery to the doorstep, he will have to drive to town to get the parcel from the post office, which is only a couple blocks away from the napa store. his nearest cat dealer is an hour away, by the time he factors in travel costs to the nearest dealer the napa filters may be cheaper.

Ray54
02-23-2017, 02:59 PM
I stocked up when Napa had the filter sale 50% off helps a lot. Ask if they know when, as it is not the same all over. Napa no. is 3825,over $20 at regular price and it takes 4.

I put a inline filter in one D6 that came with a rusty tank,rust was so bad tank went but inline filter is still there. Have learned so far just change the on inline filter and leave the Cat filter alone.

Masic
02-23-2017, 11:44 PM
The fuel tank has light surface rust inside and not flaking. Blew the fuel line out and only a small chunk of gummy silicone came out.

Drained engine oil and removed the side cover. A small amount of sludge on the bottom lip was found. Reached in and felt a light layer of goop on the inside of the bottom of the oil pan. Hit it hard with brake clean and a flexible spring with a rag. Came out pretty clean except for me! All black except for one ear. Tight spot and should have dropped the pan.

Installed my thermostat, ordered fuel filters. Bought a see through filter assembly but now have to figure out where to mount it.

What PSI would the fuel pressure be ATM Inc the fuel tower, would like to buy a gauge for it.

Ordered a complete dual filter air cleaner assembly with precleaner to add to the top of the intake of the oil bath assembly. It is for absolute sure to be overkill but I will be in the trees with this cat and breaking up new grounds with it. Pine needles are the worst for blocking off anything with air movement. I will make the assembly semi permanent. Will remove at a later date for another project.

ag-mike
02-24-2017, 07:49 AM
Masic;181429]The fuel tank has light surface rust inside and not flaking. Blew the fuel line out and only a small chunk of gummy silicone came out.
** sounds good, can't hardly believe it where that machine is. major condensation swings in a climate like urs, and mine.

Drained engine oil and removed the side cover. A small amount of sludge on the bottom lip was found. Reached in and felt a light layer of goop on the inside of the bottom of the oil pan. Hit it hard with brake clean and a flexible spring with a rag. Came out pretty clean except for me! All black except for one ear. Tight spot and should have dropped the pan.
**nope, u done good like u did it! now u know what u got in there.

Installed my thermostat, ordered fuel filters. Bought a see through filter assembly but now have to figure out where to mount it.
** see where i put my red topped filter canister here. https://youtu.be/wCTtaoMMQeg?t=105 right at the inlet of the pump. anywhere outa the way b4 the pump would be fine.

What PSI would the fuel pressure be ATM Inc the fuel tower, would like to buy a gauge for it.
** up too 50-60 psi., aftermarket s-w's i used. https://youtu.be/97ek-6gsQt4?t=426

Ordered a complete dual filter air cleaner assembly with precleaner to add to the top of the intake of the oil bath assembly. It is for absolute sure to be overkill but I will be in the trees with this cat and breaking up new grounds with it. Pine needles are the worst for blocking off anything with air movement. I will make the assembly semi permanent. Will remove at a later date for another project.
**nice.

good luck with ur project.

Masic
02-24-2017, 12:11 PM
Masic;181429]The fuel tank has light surface rust inside and not flaking. Blew the fuel line out and only a small chunk of gummy silicone came out.
** sounds good, can't hardly believe it where that machine is. major condensation swings in a climate like urs, and mine.

Drained engine oil and removed the side cover. A small amount of sludge on the bottom lip was found. Reached in and felt a light layer of goop on the inside of the bottom of the oil pan. Hit it hard with brake clean and a flexible spring with a rag. Came out pretty clean except for me! All black except for one ear. Tight spot and should have dropped the pan.
**nope, u done good like u did it! now u know what u got in there.

Installed my thermostat, ordered fuel filters. Bought a see through filter assembly but now have to figure out where to mount it.
** see where i put my red topped filter canister here. https://youtu.be/wCTtaoMMQeg?t=105 right at the inlet of the pump. anywhere outa the way b4 the pump would be fine.

What PSI would the fuel pressure be ATM Inc the fuel tower, would like to buy a gauge for it.
** up too 50-60 psi., aftermarket s-w's i used. https://youtu.be/97ek-6gsQt4?t=426

Ordered a complete dual filter air cleaner assembly with precleaner to add to the top of the intake of the oil bath assembly. It is for absolute sure to be overkill but I will be in the trees with this cat and breaking up new grounds with it. Pine needles are the worst for blocking off anything with air movement. I will make the assembly semi permanent. Will remove at a later date for another project.
**nice.

good luck with ur project.

Thanks for the video :) learned both a Psi for the filter tower and filter mount idea. Wicked welder!!!

Masic
03-02-2017, 10:31 PM
This may be a long shot. I need help

I need a fuel transfer pump or parts to rebuild the one I have. Placed a gauge in the fuel filter tower and it only built 4psi no matter the throttle position when the unit was stationary but under load it dropped to just a hair under 1psi. Too close to zero for me. I removed the pump (what a PITA!!!!!). The gears look to be in decent shape. The end cap (closest to the belly pan) was scored under the non drive gear but under the driving gear, it looks rough but not as bad. The gear spacer still looks close to the gears and in pretty good shape. I don't know what the gear to body spacing should be. The upper gear face of the pump is scored under the drive gear and slightly rough on the non driven gear side. The gear shaft is scored at both seal surfaces (pretty rough). The seals are hard as a rock (don't know the material) the spring and seal cups are in good shape. The drive gear for the engine side also in good shape. The shaft bushings are loose on the pump shaft. All gaskets will need replacing. The spring, valve and seat looked ok for the fuel relief. The seat is better than the valve but not bad enough to cause excessive leakage but did show leakage when I had it running last.

65881

Neil
03-03-2017, 05:49 AM
Cat should have most, if not all, of the gaskets, and possibly the bushings too. Anything they don't have, search for on machinerytrader.com. Once someone supplies the end gap, you'll be able to mill the end plates. The seals might be the fiber type like the D2 has. The D2's pump can be upgraded to lip-type seals and yours possibly might be able to too. A fellow on here advertises that work so you might be able to ask him - Bill Campbell I think.

ianoz
03-03-2017, 06:11 AM
Neil , I believe i read here on the forum That Bill passed away last year .

drujinin
03-03-2017, 06:16 AM
Get you on your way to recovery!
http://www.acmoc.org/bb/showthread.php?18571-fuel-pump-help-needed-D4-7u
Starts on page 5 actually???
http://www.acmoc.org/bb/showthread.php?13114-D2-Diesel-Rebuild-Kits/page6

ag-mike
03-03-2017, 07:17 AM
Masic;181883]This may be a long shot. I need help

I need a fuel transfer pump or parts to rebuild the one I have. Placed a gauge in the fuel filter tower and it only built 4psi no matter the throttle position when the unit was stationary but under load it dropped to just a hair under 1psi. Too close to zero for me.
** what do u mean under load? running? did this happen with new fuel filters installed? that engine won't start with 4 lbs. pressure. check gauge. r u using ether to start it? if so, as its starting its spinning up enough diesel pressure to run. this is exactly what i did when i got my 1st machine. in a short time it won't start at all. then my pump came off and i saw/had what u got.

I removed the pump (what a PITA!!!!!).
** welcome to loader machine madness.

The gears look to be in decent shape. The end cap (closest to the belly pan) was scored under the non drive gear but under the driving gear, it looks rough but not as bad. The gear spacer still looks close to the gears and in pretty good shape. I don't know what the gear to body spacing should be. The upper gear face of the pump is scored under the drive gear and slightly rough on the non driven gear side. The gear shaft is scored at both seal surfaces (pretty rough).
** shaft = $$$$, 15 year back my son worked at a engine machine shop that hard chromed rolls. he took mine ground it and chromed it to specs. fine rust particles does this damage. just changing shaft seals might get enough pressure up depending on shaft damage. rust,rust,finest rust particles does it. pre filter this old crap.

The seals are hard as a rock (don't know the material)
** some kind graphite stuff. they are hard like when installed.

the spring and seal cups are in good shape. The drive gear for the engine side also in good shape. The shaft bushings are loose on the pump shaft. All gaskets will need replacing. The spring, valve and seat looked ok for the fuel relief. The seat is better than the valve but not bad enough to cause excessive leakage but did show leakage when I had it running last.
** these pump issues are normal for guys bringing these relics back on line. welcome to vintage cat stuff. good luck with ur project.

Neil
03-03-2017, 09:28 AM
Hi Ian, apologies I meant Bill Walter, 816 891 8654 or wltrbet@aol.com (I shouldn't rely on my failing memory...), who refurbishes injection components. He has an ad in the magazine as well.

Gregness
03-03-2017, 09:29 AM
Walt here on the site rebuilt mine for a very reasonable price... did a nice job.

Greg

ag-mike
03-03-2017, 11:51 AM
Walt here on the site rebuilt mine for a very reasonable price... did a nice job.

Greg

does he take new customers, advertise?

gemdozer
03-03-2017, 11:52 AM
I should have some transfert fuel pumps

Masic
03-03-2017, 01:22 PM
I would love to purchase a complete pump or send this one to be rebuilt. Waiting on best avenue.

Masic
03-03-2017, 01:49 PM
Contacted Bill!! Pretty amazing guy and knows his stuff!!! Time to clean the pump, package and send over right away :)

Deas Plant.
03-03-2017, 04:03 PM
Hi, Masic.
As soon as I read 'score marks' in your earlier post, I thought to myself, "This one is not gonna be good." You only have to watch diesel fuel running through a funnel with a water strainer in it to see how much finer it is than water. This very 'fine-ness' is what makes it work so well as an injected fuel. How-wevver, it also means that very close tolerances are going to be needed in any pump that is required to pump diesel fuel under any sort of pressure, 'cos the diesel fuel will seek and find any available to bypass the pump impeller(s). It would LUUUURRRRRVE those score marks.

All of which is why CLEAN fuel and GOOD fuel filtration are so important to the long life of a diesel engine. I would guess that something - or maybe several 'somethings' - managed to get into that pump at some stage to cause those scores.

Just my 0.02.

Neil
03-03-2017, 05:00 PM
Good deal Masic - I had my 3J injectors done and was very happy.

ianoz
03-03-2017, 05:39 PM
Hi Ian, apologies I meant Bill Walter, 816 891 8654 or wltrbet@aol.com (I shouldn't rely on my failing memory...), who refurbishes injection components. He has an ad in the magazine as well.

No apology needed Neil Was just trying to help ,and save the guy chasing up Bill Campbell.

Masic
03-04-2017, 12:30 AM
Hi, Masic.
As soon as I read 'score marks' in your earlier post, I thought to myself, "This one is not gonna be good." You only have to watch diesel fuel running through a funnel with a water strainer in it to see how much finer it is than water. This very 'fine-ness' is what makes it work so well as an injected fuel. How-wevver, it also means that very close tolerances are going to be needed in any pump that is required to pump diesel fuel under any sort of pressure, 'cos the diesel fuel will seek and find any available to bypass the pump impeller(s). It would LUUUURRRRRVE those score marks.

All of which is why CLEAN fuel and GOOD fuel filtration are so important to the long life of a diesel engine. I would guess that something - or maybe several 'somethings' - managed to get into that pump at some stage to cause those scores.

Just my 0.02.

Absolutely understood regarding your reply. The score marks are limited to both the end cap and the pump body right where the gears ride. The non driven gear marked the end cap where the drive gear marked the pump body. The pump itself is also at fault for the wear being that the non driven gear is simply bushed on a shaft and the shafted gear is directly influenced by the helical drive gear being driven by the engines auxiliary output which is also bushed in position. The fluid wedge groove found on one side of the pump gears are not the best way to keep from metal to metal contact. The gear body (portion surrounding the gears) looks newer than the rest of the pump and I suspect that the gears are also. The pump gear body has no visual wear marks or nicks. The gear teeth are polished and show no pitting or chips. Bushings are not a good way to promote long pump life. Bearings and shoulders would perform way better.

makes no sense to not filter the fuel between the tank and pump. Why the tank is directly plumbed to the fuel pump is beyond goofy. I definitely will be adding a pre filter befor the pump. There wasn't much sediment in the fuel tower. There were paint chips and a very fine slime that was reddish in color (most likely rust) what I did remove and flush and had no gritty feel to it except for the paint chips when spread between the fingers. When flushed in brake clean and drained into a lint free cloth, the cloth was discoloured but nothing i can see with the naked eye as a heavy particulate (comparing the material size to the micro print found on personal checks which is my limit to as small as I can see). The body and pressure relief cup (spring charged relief) might have been the major source of pressure loss considering what was seen after the pump disassembly. The shaft score marks are directly related to the hard material seals.

All in all, I am pleased with the condition that everything has been found in considering the age of the Cat and the work/life it lived in. The more I tear into it, the more I like it. The last owners did take really good care of it mechanically. The lack of body paint really didn't tell the full story of this machine.

Just installed new seat pads in her :)

Masic
03-04-2017, 06:55 PM
Built a pre filter mount for the fuel line. Found an old military antenna mount and almost fits perfectly

65912

Masic
03-04-2017, 07:10 PM
If you google Caterpillar 1P0005, a fuel transfer pump will be found. My question is -How similar is the 1P0005 to the 1F1532. Looking at the photo, the body, mounting holes x4, fuel outlet port, shaft and seal cup, helical accessory drive gear all look very similar. My fuel pump suction is on the opposite side of the 1P0005 suction but other than that, they look very similar.

Will contact Cat Monday and see what's up. I hope that the 1P0005 would be a good replacement even if it's just for parts.

65913 65918

Masic
03-08-2017, 05:35 PM
Update - ordered a pump. Was told dimensionally that the drive side and mounting is the same. Might have struck gold or been over sold...

Masic
03-13-2017, 05:23 PM
Received the new pump. Looks like it will work. As soon as I verify after its mounting and operation, I will add to this post. So far the drive, mounting holes, port and gear are an exact match. Body is a little larger and will have to verify the fuel pressure set. Suction is on the opposite side but spring, valve and suction manifold bolt pattern are the same. New pump is missing the port found on the operator side of the pump which seems to be relocated in the suction manifold. Will need to get creative with the port orientation and it's connections.

I will add as I go

66115 66116 66119 66120 66121

rmyram
03-13-2017, 11:13 PM
can you swap the original suction port with the new one on the new pump? or can you swap the internals from the new pump to the old one?

ag-mike
03-14-2017, 07:58 AM
can you swap the original suction port with the new one on the new pump? or can you swap the internals from the new pump to the old one?

he says "little larger" unit, but i agree with u.

Masic
03-14-2017, 09:54 PM
Lucy is running again!!! :D

Here's the deal. New pump will fit if you remove the injector pump, fuel tower and install the pump first then reinstall the fuel tower and injector pump. It cannot be installed otherwise. I verified this by removing the drive gear and popping it into place but had to grind off a 16th of an inch on the body facing the engine to taper to allow clearance over the side engine covers. I did think about denting the side cover and not grind the pump body to accept the new pump but decided not to because I don't know if the side cover could allow for this . Not a big deal if you are interested in a complete tear down of the fuel system

I chose the lazy way and here is the readers digest version. I took apart the new pump and performed a comparison to the old pump. Kept the drive gear, woodruff key and nut because they were the same. Kept the new shaft but noticed that the new shaft was near 1/8" shorter than the original shaft but this was ok with me and I will explain later. The new shaft matches completely with the old shaft except for being 1/8" shorter. I kept the new pump seal cone, use my old seal cup washers (new pump washers are just stamped and looked cheap) kept the new pump seal spring. I removed the shaft seal from the body by pressing the shaft bushing out of the new pump body and both came out. I trimmed the new pump shaft bushing to match the old bushing, length was a little long on the bushing but all else matches.

Now the gritty part. Pulled the old pump body dowels and non driven gear shaft. Machined the old body and end cap to allow for the 1/8" difference in shaft length and to remove the scoring then lapped all surfaces on a bench lapping turn table. Machined the new gears to exact length to match the old gear body then lapped to a precise measurement. Machined the old gear body to accept the larger diameter gears that came with the new pump and machined a new shaft mounting hole for the non drive pump gear. Steel filled the original hole with a press fit machined dowel and machined a new shaft hole. The new gears are just over 3/16" larger than the old gears in diameter. Lapped both surfaces of the gear body (just had to touch them up). All measurements were based on the measurements found on both pump bodies.

Prussian blued the entire inner surface of the pump body and gears. Assembled to test fit the gears in the old pump body. Turned the shaft by hand and felt resistance. Disassembled the pump and found that the gears had to be touched up in length. Performed this twice until I was happy with the shaft movement. Added a hose to the suction port and cycled oil through the pump by use of a 1/2" drill. Pumped like a mofo!! Disassembled once again and found no issues as far as removal of the Prussian blue paint.

Final assembly of the old pump with new internals including the new non driven gear shaft and old dowels. The suction manifold from either pump will bolt onto either pump. Gaskets are slightly different in cut but a match none the less. The old pump has the fuel return directly into a port on the pump body where the new pump has a return on the suction manifold so that is the limitation of swapping the manifolds. If you are going to use the new pump you will have to remove the fuel return line from the injector return line on the engine right on down to the original pump port and replace with one going to the new pump suction manifold port.

If you are going to modify the old pump like I did, first buy the parts mentioned without buying the whole pump (they are available) or do the expensive way as I did @ $347.31 shipped to my door for a 8U fuel transfer pump, you will need a way to machine and lap the surfaces and make sure that after assembly, the pump turns without binding.

I removed the spring, spring guides and poppet valve from the new pump and installed into my old manifold. The new poppet valve is all metal with a rubber face seal which kicks butt over my original spring and plastic poppet valve. After I assembled the pump I verified that it turned by hand again without any funny feels or resistance other than the shaft seals.

Installed the pump. Installed straight fittings with oring face seals (gets rid of the cup/cone/steel line of the original) to JIC#8 on both the pump suction port and fuel tank delivery port. Installed a #8 hydraulic hose that was 11 3/4" long to my fuel pre filter (kit as mentioned a page earlier) and the inlet side of this filter I installed a One Way ball check gravity assisted right at the filter then hose 43" long to the tank. The ball check is to not allow the fuel to siphon back to the tank because my pre filter is mounted high next to the fuel tank.

Siphoned fuel right up to the fuel pump suction port to prime the system. Fired up the pony engine, engaged the main engine. I was producing 9.5Psi fuel pressure under pony rpm. Performed the Maine engine start sequence and fired up the main engine. The pump produced 31psi which was higher than a video of the welding machines fuel pressure as seen earlier in this chat chain. Removed the suction manifold and removed the spring guide at the backside of the spring and reinstalled the manifold. The spring guid also added spring pressure based on its seat height. Purged air, fired up main engine and am now producing 26psi at high engine RPM and 16psi at low engine rpm.

Success!!!! I'm a happy man. I ran the engine under full rpm and loaded up the machine by pushing deep wet snow. The engine runs at dead centre of the temp gauge and the exhaust popping sound is gone!!!! Awesome!!!! Verified the fuel pressures and no change. Removed the engine hour meter assembly to verify that no fuel is getting into the crank case and there was no trace. Ran the engine without the hour meter installed and will strongly advise that oil will eject out of this port in both spray and drain but no sign of fuel. Verified that the left side drain port was also not venting (this is the one that is T'd to the above fuel filter vent line.

I hope that this info was useful. Pump is obsolete but can be modified to work with the parts from the new pump.

66139

ag-mike
03-15-2017, 06:39 AM
looks like u been busy, and the transfer pump master now! its a good thing when good typist like u r is mechanical too.:eyebrows:

old-iron-habit
03-15-2017, 07:51 AM
Wow, Nice job and excellent write up. This repair explanation should be copied to the tech section for future reference.

rmyram
03-15-2017, 10:00 AM
glad you got it going.

did you snap any pics as you did all this machine work, i can picture what your saying, but there are a few things i'm certain i'm not picturing properly and i don't think i'm alone.

drujinin
03-15-2017, 07:48 PM
an Amateur Machinist and Fabricator but WOW!
I bow to your skill and determination to "do it right"!

If this does end up in a "Sticky", I hope the discussion backs up to the initial analysis of the pump, then the purchase of the donor pump.
Thanks!

Masic
03-15-2017, 11:17 PM
Thank you all for the positive replies!!! On my end, it was do or tow, in the most miserable way possible. Basically where I parked it, it would have been tough access to drag out but got her going :)

My apologies also. If there is anything that I can clear up in the write up, please mention your thoughts. It's really fresh in my head. I also apologize for not snapping photos. I borrowed the machines for repair at my friend shop and was caught up in the moment deep in thought. Every step I took brought me to a point of no return.

I did re read my write up and see that my terminology of parts might be confusing. A quick response.

I used the old pump in every way possible and replaced all of the internals. The new pump has 2 parts to the body where the original has 3 and they breakdown like this:

-Shaft side of pump houses the shaft and seal assemblies, shaft bushing, alignment dowels and non drive pump gear support shaft. This housing also mounts the pump assembly to the engine

-The gear body is just that, it surrounds the pump gears. Looks to be a replacement part with a new gear set and I mention this because it was much cleaner, brighter yellow and showed little to no rust externally when impaired to the other pump parts

-End cap, this basically covers the gears and is used to seal the pump

New pump

-Main body houses the shaft and seal assemblies, shaft bushing, non pump drive gear support shaft and integral gear body (basically the gear body is machined directly into this portion without being separate)

-End cap to seal the pump


Machining the gear body of the old pump to accept the larger diameter gears does reduce the material of the gear body around the gears. Considering the pressure is really really low, I think it should last for a good long time. The new pump was larger in body size and I believe made to withstand higher pressure. The end cap bolts are the same diameter 5/16" as the original pump but shorter. Why the body has so much material is questionable. The end cap bolt pattern is forgiving as far as material around each bolt to prevent pump body failure. All in all, I have just over 1/8" of material around the gears and slightly larger material thickness around the closest bolts. I don't foresee a failure anytime soon.

I can idle the machine down almost to the point where you can hear each individual cylinder firing. I will capture video and upload them when I have ab better internet connection when I go to the city. I did turn the fuel pressure down to 19psi by cutting the spring a little. An old CAT guy in the area suggested a lower pressure for filter reasons considering the age of the machine. He said, run it and keep changing the fuel filters. When I notice them last longer, go ahead and raise the pressure. I will accomplish this by adding the spring guide back in behind the spring. This will compress the spring some. I can also shim the spring if needed.

Masic
03-16-2017, 06:01 PM
Quick question for you guys.

My throttle lever seems to go really easy in one direction (throttle up) but does take more strength to throttle down. Any thoughts? I have checked the manuals and find no reference to this issue

mog5858
03-16-2017, 06:41 PM
wow great work. glad to hear you got her all fixed up. i really like hearing how you remade the pump with new parts. with a little time and a few good tools it''s amazing what i guy can get done.

ag-mike
03-16-2017, 06:55 PM
Quick question for you guys.

My throttle lever seems to go really easy in one direction (throttle up) but does take more strength to throttle down. Any thoughts? I have checked the manuals and find no reference to this issue

its 4 holeshots against euclids & deeres!:usa2:

edb
03-16-2017, 08:12 PM
Hi Masic,
what you are feeling with your throttle lever action is the stop mechanism that holds the throttle at any position you set it at within its working range doing its job.
If you did not feel that resistance your throttle would not hold its set position and would gradually allow the system to throttle down.
If it is really hard to throttle down then you may need to dismantle, clean, and re-lube the friction unit at the operators control lever.
Cheers,
Eddie B.

Masic
03-17-2017, 02:39 AM
Hi Masic,
what you are feeling with your throttle lever action is the stop mechanism that holds the throttle at any position you set it at within its working range doing its job.
If you did not feel that resistance your throttle would not hold its set position and would gradually allow the system to throttle down.
If it is really hard to throttle down then you may need to dismantle, clean, and re-lube the friction unit at the operators control lever.
Cheers,
Eddie B.

Thank you Eddie.

I started from the injector pump back. Pulled the rod connection at the pump and it was easy to move when compared to the hand control. Reassembled and lubed all spots on the way back to the hand control. Pulled the linkage from the hand control and felt the rack resistance only. Pretty satisfied that the problem is only in the hand control.

The nut on the right side of the hand control, I take it is used to remove the whole assembly or does it tear down the assembly as well?

The left side what looked to be a bolt just turns and that's it. I counted my turns in one direction and then backed it off the same amount - no change. I grabbed the bell with a pipe wrench and turned the bolt. At first I thought my wrench slipped on the bolt head but soon realized that it was indexing the pattern found on the bell. The bolt head pops in and out of a matching hex pattern in the bell just below this bolt head. At this point, I grabbed my airline and air nozzle, indexed the bolt head to be halfway towards its next indexed position which exposed tiny openings into the assembly where I blew it out with high pressure air. Lots of dust and still no change so I indexed the bolt head again to expose the tiny openings and sprayed fluid film with straw into the assembly. Indexed the bolt back and moved the lever. Every time I moved it, it moved easier. Now when I throttle up? You hear a distinct click and if I'm counting right, there is 5 clicks making 5 fuel application positions. Sound right? When I go to throttle down, I still have resistance but not anywhere near like before and it is smooth!! Feels right and like it should be. Enough resistance to not throttle down on its own but not too much to bug me :)

Should I be taking it apart and clean the heck out of it or leave as is?

I've been tinkering on it with anytime that I have free. Fun to work on and neat to see how it was made and the tools I have next to it is a really small amount not like the new stuff. So far it's been easy to work on. No bolts that are rusted badly and or snapping off. No real leakage on it but it does sweat a little around in various places. The worst place it leaked was near the fuel transfer pump but that's gone now. It does get up to temp now and the exhaust burns really clean (clean for its age and technology) and runs smooth. Steers really nice, brakes work really well, really responsive on throttle now. Has power :)

I have to go through the hydraulics next. When actuating the pump, you hear the hood rattle against the front nose and dash. Not an issue but annoying only. Might just need rubber between mating surfaces. The pump needs a shaft seal. Drips slowly but not lots. It's a real PITA to remove. I'm tempted to set the valves on both engines but am reluctant also. Both run well but my brain says do it and my body says no. Working around those big cylinders suck! Just draining oil from the main engine start assembly required full body contortion and sleepy limbs. Thoughts on valve set?

Masic
03-17-2017, 02:50 AM
66191 66192 66193 66194 66195 66196
66197

I will get some outside daylight photos of it this weekend and will capture some video. It's coming along :)

Andrew
03-17-2017, 05:45 AM
The throttle control is a ratcheting arrangement .
Click click click to full throttle then should lock.
push forward hard to decelerate.
There are brake type discs in there tensioned by the 3/4 nut on the side.
If it works leave it alone.

drujinin
03-17-2017, 06:31 AM
You'll park the old girl out near the woods, it'll sit for a month or two, then you'll not be able to find it!
HAHAHA!!!!
Nice Job on the paint!

Garlic Pete
03-17-2017, 08:58 AM
You mention the trouble with the big hydraulic cylinders in the way. Given that it is an overshot loader and you have it running well, can't you run the overshot all the way over the back, which I think should put the cylinder pretty near vertical, then work on the engine relatively unimpeded? You might not have the headroom to run it over the top in the shop, although your shop sure is nice. I would think you could move it outside, run the blade over to the back, then drive it back in that way to work on it.

I'm sure you'll still have some stuff in the way, the track frame brackets and stuff. Probably the cylinders will still be somewhat in the way, but should be much better than how it is sitting now. You'll also lose the nice step that the push arms provides, but I'd think you'll still have net easier access with the blade over toward the back.

Of course the other alternative is just remove the blade and cylinders. With all the other work you've done, that really isn't that big a hassle, especially if you're going to spend some time on both engines setting the valves and maybe doing other service while you have easy access.

Just a thought,

Pete.

Masic
03-17-2017, 10:17 AM
The throttle control is a ratcheting arrangement .
Click click click to full throttle then should lock.
push forward hard to decelerate.
There are brake type discs in there tensioned by the 3/4 nut on the side.
If it works leave it alone.

Agreed!! Working now so am moving on. Thanks for the reply. Your response has totally confirmed things for me and cleared up some questions

Masic
03-17-2017, 10:23 AM
You'll park the old girl out near the woods, it'll sit for a month or two, then you'll not be able to find it!
HAHAHA!!!!
Nice Job on the paint!

Hahahaha so true. Good thing also, nobody can see this young guy on a 70 year old girl bahahahahaha! If it breaks down, it can be easier to forgive and forget also. Plus plus plus

It's a quick paint job just to freshen it up and to allow me to see where it's sweats or if there are problems. When it was all patina'd in its glorious rust, everything kinda blended in and no details were easy to see. At least now, oil leaks, hot spots, coolant leaks, broken parts and other issues like that will be easily seen. Now I'm looking at my tractors and am wondering what it would look like in camo.

Masic
03-17-2017, 10:36 AM
You mention the trouble with the big hydraulic cylinders in the way. Given that it is an overshot loader and you have it running well, can't you run the overshot all the way over the back, which I think should put the cylinder pretty near vertical, then work on the engine relatively unimpeded? You might not have the headroom to run it over the top in the shop, although your shop sure is nice. I would think you could move it outside, run the blade over to the back, then drive it back in that way to work on it.

I'm sure you'll still have some stuff in the way, the track frame brackets and stuff. Probably the cylinders will still be somewhat in the way, but should be much better than how it is sitting now. You'll also lose the nice step that the push arms provides, but I'd think you'll still have net easier access with the blade over toward the back.

Of course the other alternative is just remove the blade and cylinders. With all the other work you've done, that really isn't that big a hassle, especially if you're going to spend some time on both engines setting the valves and maybe doing other service while you have easy access.

Just a thought,

Pete.

I have room in the shop to put the blade straight vertical and have done so many times. I tie it back in the vertical position also with heavy straps, come along and chain just to be on the safe side. The cylinders stay relatively flat when fully stroked :( will update with photos with full blade movement

I could also do as you suggested, remove the whole blade assembly, arm and cylinders. It still have to deal with mounts as you mentioned. Might be a good way to go. Can work on cylinder repacking (not leaking now but good maintenance practice) can also inspect the arm/blade for cracks, rebuild wear spots, rebuild the cylinder eyes and rebore the pin holes. Everything around here lately is melting, wet and muddy so now would be a good time but if I run her and try to expose all weak spots, I can tackle it later. Sure would hate to do all of that work only to have it fail but would love to have all of that work done before I work the machine hard.

I'm going to discuss this with Jack Daniels today. We usually start the season off on the first nice, warm sunny day. Call it the preseason strategy session

drujinin
03-18-2017, 06:46 AM
Jack is a good guy! Last Fall I was down at his distillery, Impressive operation to say the least!
Enjoyed my visit more with his cousin Jim Beam more. :D

Masic
03-18-2017, 10:02 AM
Jack is a good guy! Last Fall I was down at his distillery, Impressive operation to say the least!
Enjoyed my visit more with his cousin Jim Beam more. :D

Lol

I would love that tour

Masic
03-18-2017, 10:06 AM
Just a quick straight vertical photo

66233

The bucket tilt cylinders are not installed in this photo nor is the bucket but a good photo to show this cats ability to hold up the sky or what it looks like when it's the end of the work day Friday

Masic
04-03-2017, 12:23 PM
Just adding photos

66738 66739 66740

Masic
04-17-2017, 06:47 PM
Anyone have a parts source for this old cat? Mostly looking for tin, bottom rollers and would like a generator

7upuller
04-17-2017, 10:59 PM
Try Florin Tractor parts...

Masic
04-18-2017, 04:29 PM
Try Florin Tractor parts...

Will do. Found them in California. Thanks for the tip man!!

drujinin
04-18-2017, 08:44 PM
Try Hecter Gemme up there, He disassembles a lot of tractors. He's on here fairly regular.

Masic
04-21-2017, 01:22 AM
Try Hecter Gemme up there, He disassembles a lot of tractors. He's on here fairly regular.

Tried a search with no success. How do I find this contact?

gemdozer
04-21-2017, 05:36 AM
If I can help let me know

drujinin
04-21-2017, 06:24 AM
Gemdozer is Hecter Gemme!

Masic
04-22-2017, 10:39 AM
Gemdozer is Hecter Gemme!

Thank you!!

Masic
04-22-2017, 10:40 AM
If I can help let me know

New to this world and it's a pleasure to meet you. I will send a pm

Masic
04-22-2017, 10:55 AM
If I can help let me know

I can't send you a Pm. The message stated that you have way too many messages lol

gemdozer
04-22-2017, 02:50 PM
My email box is clean now

Masic
04-22-2017, 04:45 PM
My email box is clean now

PM sent and thanks for the quick response

Mustangrh68
03-06-2018, 12:06 AM
Hey Alan.

Sounds like you have spent a lot of time getting it going!! And running properly.
It is good to see her running again from the day you an I looked at it at Myron's.

I found a 1950 D4, that I need to do some work to.

Rob.