found a pair of twenties

[snowshoveler]

Hi folks...
Chris here from Nova Scotia.
have been looking for some time for a small crawler that i could take my time with and bring back to life.
Well lucky me,i found 2 early twenties.
1 is definatly a parts machine but the better of the 2 has a very good undercarriage,chains and sprockets have lots of life left.Both are up on blocks and the better one rolls easily.
Of course the motor in the poor one is stuck and the manifolds are long ago cracked and ugly.The start handle on the better one is below a very ugly raised and stuck snow blade and i wasnt about to crawl onder it to check the engine.
so my questions are can a manifold be found or fabricated (brother works at a local foundry) and if the engine is stuck and i can manage to somehow salvage enough pieces to make 1 complete engine from 2 can ring snd gaskets be had as well as bearings.
and while im at it the sprockets and chains look pretty good on the parts crawler.Should i parts these out or keep them as spares.
Oh yes the owner will sell for about the price of scrap iron.
Trying to put a pic or 2 here.
Thanks chris

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/MissSnowshoveler/August182008003.jpg http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/MissSnowshoveler/August182008010.jpg http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/MissSnowshoveler/August182008017.jpg http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/MissSnowshoveler/August182008001.jpg

[bgates]

I'd buy those in a heartbeat. Too bad I'm so far away. What a nice project. I wouldn't sell anything until the project is done, then sell the spares. You'll be looking for a lot of spares as it is.

[Steve A]

Great find, Start with a Steam cleaner then a few cans of penetrating oil. a matching parts machine is a big help to a project.

[snowshoveler]

So if im real lucky and the finals and the clutches can be made usable again and so on and so on.
What kind of numbers are involved in getting the engine up and running.
Im a small engine service tech with a pretty good marine background.
The tools are no problem but the availability of parts makes me a bit timid.
Granted i think i can get the pair home for around 1000 dollars.But if im going to have a go at it i would like to have an engine running in a reasonable amount of time.
I also know that with enough time and money anything can be restored.
Im not planning a full on restoration.
I would go through it completley but i plan on using it around my property.Its going to have to earn its keep.
I would keep the small blade and use it for leveling topsoil and possibly push out the odd tree stump,relax ,not any bigger than a christmas tree.Not to many big trees on my property anyway.
I have already done a nice job on a powerking garden tractor ,a green M and recently an early 70s massy skid steer.
The crawler is something i have always wanted.
These are small enough that parts arent going to be so awefull to move around,still heavy but manageable.
Thanks for listening.
Chris

[PT3090]

Snowshoveler -
it looks to me that you have found examples of two different model Twenties
The L-212 unit is the older machine. The engine and undercarriage is different than the other machine. The Twenty with the horizontal engine side panels is a rare 8C model (only 652 made). The 8C is a re-enginered PV 15 basically with the gastank behind the engine rather than over it.
The L-212 Twenty has a three roller bottom and a top carrier roller. The 8C Twenty has a four roller bottom and no top carrier. The L-212 engine is 4" bore x 5-1/2" stroke. The 8C twenty is 3-3/4" x 5".

I say get them - but be aware that they are very different machines.

PT3090

[naylorbros]

Are you sure the one with the horazontal engine side panals is an 8C or is it a L with Twenty Five covers? I think that I can see an intake manifold through the side panels. If it is a intake manifold there is no chance of it being an 8C. Also did not the 8Cs have the fuel tank hold downs welded to the tank and not the straps to hold the tank down like in the picture? Also I think that the 8C only had two sets of louvers in the side panels.
Thanks
Ken

[snowshoveler]

The manifolds are the same on both machines (and both are crap)i saw however the fuel tanks are different.Not sure if both are original.the tracks and related hardware appear the same on both machines and they are parked side by side.
The parts machine dosent have a hood on it or side curtains or the proper rad for that matter.
The 212 is the only one i posted pics of so im a little unsure about different styles.
The 212 is indeed the one with the horizontal slots in the engine side curtains.
So if the 212 is indeed a rare machine of limited quantity i should perhaps let a person with a bit more resources than me rescue it from its hiding place.
Or maybe ill buy it and hold it for ransome ha ha .
Thanks for reading.
Chris

[WyoCat]

The L and PL 20's had individual cylinders and a head with over head valves. There are visible push rod tubes. The 8C's were of the flat head design. This should help you ID the difference.

[snowshoveler]

ah ...yes the parts crawler as individual cylinders,as for the one with the hood on it(212) i couldnt actually get the hood open the big ugly snow blade has to leave first.
thanks chris

[Catmatt]

212 is the big twenty. Does the other twenty have straps holding the fuel tank or is it directly bolted to the frame. Also, if they are different models, the sizes should be different as the small twenty weighs 2000 lbs less

[snowshoveler]

im not sure about the mounting for the gas tank.
There was i beleive a tank behind the seat area and at first i just figgured it was an hydraulic reservoir,however it wouldnt have a factory hydraulic anything would it.
Im pretty sure the machines are the same size,but there are some differences for sure.
ill get the missus to help with another pic or 2 of the parts crawler.
thanks again for all the interest.
Chris
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/MissSnowshoveler/August182008022.jpg http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/MissSnowshoveler/August182008019.jpg

[naylorbros]

There are both Ls or PLs (serial number preifx). The only difference between the L and the PL is were it was made(there were may changes made to parts of the tractor duing the production run). Ls were built in San Lenadro Ca and the PLs were built in Peoria Ill. The way that we talk about Cats is a little confusing at first. When you some one say that they have an 8C Twenty (8C being the serial number prefix) that tells most everyone what Twenty they have. Another example would be the D8 Cat. The D8 has been built for 70 years with many different serial number prefixes 5E, 1H, 8R, 2U, 13A etc. I hope this helps a little when were are talking Ls PLs and 8C Twentys.
Thanks
Ken

[PT3090]

My quick look at the one with the horizontal louvers suggested to me that it was an 8C Twenty - but I certainly could be wrong. Yes - the engines would be very different if one was an 8C (small 20) and the other an "L" (or PL) twenty (large 20). Just count the track rollers - 8C has four per side, L has just three.
They may well be both "L" twenties - but that horizontal louver threw me.

PT3090