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View Full Version : ACMOC Diecast, whats next?



Gavin84w
08-26-2009, 06:56 AM
With the R2 done and just around the corner has ACMOC settled on what will be next in the diecast range?

bernie
08-26-2009, 12:07 PM
I'll put the first vote out for a D42T series.

CAT RD-7
08-26-2009, 12:35 PM
With the R2 done and just around the corner has ACMOC settled on what will be next in the diecast range?

I think a RD-7 or a RD-8 would be nice because it would be the beginning of the D7 and D8 series.

gwhdiesel75
08-26-2009, 01:18 PM
I think we are going to take a break from producing models until we see an uptick in the economy. We produce them to sell, not to sit in inventory. gWH

dctex99
08-26-2009, 02:24 PM
keeps items on the shelf for long periods of time!:eek:
Anyone know if the initial run of R2's of 1250 sold out?????

shovel man
08-26-2009, 02:26 PM
What I have seen of the R2 model it is poor on detail and over priced @ $159
that is why I have not ordered one! the D2 with the Trackson loader was
far better quality and value for money @ $99

The D9 models on the other hand are of excellent quality and well worth
the $249

Maybe if the R2 was better priced they would sell quicker!

just my 2 cents worth,

shovel man.

MARTYN WILLIAMS
08-26-2009, 04:24 PM
I think you are dead right there shovel man.I have the D9 model and its very good.Some Norscot stuff is not very good for the money payed.
Some good models are a good investment and better than money in the bank.
The trouble is that Cat inc rake in a fair bit on models,therefore the price is high.Its a shame.
Martyn

tailseat15
08-26-2009, 11:56 PM
I'm still anxious to receive my R2 models, even though they were a little expensive. (where else are ya gonna get one, right?) I thought the D2 models were a great compromise between price and quality, and I like the twenty two and twenty just as much. I would sure like to see a Ten soon. Maybe an RD4 or RD6 would be neat also, in 1/16th so they are to scale with the others.
I know the Norscot tractor's weren't quite as detailed as the SpecCast ones, but I'm still gratefull that they were made. If not for them, there'd be less Cat's! Its too bad there has been so many difficulties with the model production in the past. I'd like to thank the ACMOC Committee for all their hard work; don't get discouraged GWHDiesel75. Keep them coming- by the time the next model rolls out things will be better! (hopefully, right?!!)

Sydhuey
08-29-2009, 07:38 AM
Saving my money for the 2 x D10 models from CCM, have all the D2's and 5 of the D9's , waiting in anticipation when one day a D9G comes out, will get the R2 one day but not high on priority. More into the Diesels and in particular any post war D dozers. Ultimate would be a 1969 D5 for me.

Gavin84w
08-29-2009, 10:03 AM
Yes those D10,s will be special and perhaps some other very special models in that series too. I have sort of campaigned for a DW21 as track machines have in the ACMOC series been done to death a little but they will always get my money no matter what it is!!

catalac
08-29-2009, 11:05 AM
Thanks on behalf of the M&M Committee for your positive attitudes and comments.

The Model & Merchandise Committee (M&M Committee) is the most critical committee in the operation of ACMOC, because ACMOC depends on income from sales of models and merchandise for everything it does except magazine publication. The cost of the magazine is covered by the due we pay as members of ACMOC.

Presently the committee is made up of our Executive Director and six volunteers (three board members and three non-board members). Since the committee is so critical, the president of the club, or his designate, is required to chair this committee. We meet three to four times per year on an as needed basis and usually meet at the club office here in Peoria. We need replacements from time to time, so if there are any volunteers who would like to serve on this committee, please send me a PM. The only pre-requisite is that committee members must be club members. It would be great if they had some model experience, but it is not required. Also be aware that the only gratification in volunteering for this committee is the appreciation shown by others for the models that are produced.

The committee has suggested, and the board has agreed, that we should start another new model when we see signs of improvement in the economy. This is an attempt to carefully manage the club funds during these difficult economic times. The committee will be meeting again before the end of September to review the situation.

Gavin84w- It has not been decided which model will be next. We have it narrowed to three possibilities. They are a D9G with three-shank ripper, a DW20 Tractor, or a Ten. All are in the ten-year plan as one of a series of models. The committee will make a recommendation to the board as to which should be next.

Regards,
Lee

PS-I should add that a DW21 is in the future, but we decided we had to take some small steps first. The cost and the resulting price of a DW21 without existing tooling was judged to be too high for too many of our customers.

JasonPayneCrawlers
08-29-2009, 01:58 PM
I would like to see a Ten:)

Gavin84w
08-31-2009, 06:15 AM
Thats some great news there Lee and i think you may be pleasently surprised how much people would pay for a DW21 as i know quite a few folk who would take it in a heartbeat and argue with the wife later!! But i understand the economy would be playing a big part on whether to proceed at breakneck or just idle and it goes without saying idling will be the order of the day.

D9G with multishank would sure be a winner and the beauty with that ripper is that a single shank genuinly had the outside shanks frame cut off and boxed in so an easy mod already, bring it on!

Chapter 3
09-01-2009, 05:45 AM
Yes those D10,s will be special and perhaps some other very special models in that series too. I have sort of campaigned for a DW21 as track machines have in the ACMOC series been done to death a little but they will always get my money no matter what it is!!

The D9G and DW21 have been the front runners for the next model produced. I am interested in what the membership thinks about which one we should produce. Both models will require a significant investment in tooling and production costs.

razz
09-01-2009, 07:07 AM
I will vote for the D9g with hyd blade and open air ROPS. Ripper or not dosn't matter. Razz

dctex99
09-01-2009, 09:50 AM
I would prefer ripper also;since it is just a tool modification:D

Gavin84w
09-02-2009, 05:06 AM
The D9G and DW21 have been the front runners for the next model produced. I am interested in what the membership thinks about which one we should produce. Both models will require a significant investment in tooling and production costs.

Chapter 3, my thoughts are to put a bit of spice into what we have collected and track machines are a big part of the collection so to change it around a bit would be a good thing, my vote is for the DW21. Whilst a D9G will have a huge following and be an instant hit in essence the DW will be aswell i am sure.

On another note i had 3 R2,s turn up down under today so Specast have got them on there way.

dctex99
09-05-2009, 06:29 PM
I see they are dumping D2 Orchards for $40!! Wish they had just sold all of them for somewhere in between 40 & $75 and they may have sold them all earlier! And yes, they will sell them all out at $40, because a certain dealer in PA will buy all they have on speculation of future returns; he has deep pockets!

Willie
09-05-2009, 11:01 PM
With the big expense of pattern making why would you do a DW21 that at most you could add a water wagon and only contruction collectors would be interested in. When you could make the TEN that could be 4 diffi. versions and just by upsizing a bit you would have same in a 15 and a little more change have the small 15 small 20 and a real 22. The only way the models will ever work is if made by Spec Cast or First Gear not the junk Norscot stuff its a kids toy qaulity that most real collectors dont want kinda like the crap at the Cat dealer. I dont beleave the economy has that much to do with the failure I beleave its the wrong people choseing wrong models and makers. The models did well under Larry Maasdam leadership we had more money then we needed. Later powers to be including the present made blunders that seems to have all but put us out of the model making. We need to make quality models that people will buy sell them at a price that is reasonable to both buyer and seller , selling only a limted number of each and someone incharge that at least knows what a 22 looks like. And please dont tell me how you all like the models and how well current people are doing because plain and simple they ran our very profetalbe model buisness into the ground Wrong people making what nobody wants and making blunders like the 22 and the Norscot deal, plain and simple.
Brooks museum took 300 D9s put a winch on them and sold the all in 1 hour for $300 and today they are highly sought after at a price of $1000 We cant sell a D2 for $40. They did 2 things right limited to 3 per person and didnt make early sales to big toy sellers at a dicounted price that would compete with their own sales. evary model should be sold thru ACMOC with no discounts and a small limit.
Make a standard TEN and go from there wide,rowcrop,tailseat,citrus fenders ,cab and if you want add a few implements for it like a No1 terracer or grader, mower culivator Ect. and to make evey thing in the 15 you just need to upscale the panterns that and make only 1000 each and they would be all sold before they are finished being made
Maybe we should vote to take some of the powers from the Bod ? They never leave the Bod or peoria for help. Beleave fellas there are others all over the world who are better then you for some things so send Kent and few others home to play with tractors and ask in the next newletter asking for help that are qualified to do the job.

Gavin84w
09-06-2009, 03:17 AM
Willie, the reason i have pushed the DW21 barrow is to be perfectly honest, i am over every next release from ACMOC being a track type machine. Don,t get me wrong the shelf is littered with ACMOC models of all shapes and sizes but track type machines are just running a bit too long in the tooth. Have you thought this fact may have something to do with certain model sales? I have heard there are powers that be that will not entertain anything more than track type machines as models from ACMOC but i think with diligent, civil voice of the customer feedback there maybe an opportunity to have them think outside track machines-the 491 comes to mind.

You have to remember as each year passses and we hold true to 40 years back is the cutoff there are a lot of people from the construction era that through the WWW may just go and have a look for something pertaining to there working years and what do you know, they find the ACMOC site and as they say the rest is history, OK i am probably drawing a long bow there but bottom line i think the model line needs to expand to reach a broader audience.

I fully understand the economics of recycling a base model into numerous other guises but that is a route that has been taken and there is enough history to show how successful or not that can be.

Good topic and lets keep it going and civil i say.

Willie
09-06-2009, 04:25 AM
I dont really care about the models at all but if we are we need to make something that more then just me and you will buy (I would buy one if made by 1st Gear or Specast only because I was ran 1 for long time) and at the price of the the prototype it gets very pricey so we do need to make diff versions of same and pic machines that are wanted by more people, also most Caterpillar collectors and restorers think as Cat as being a tracklayer and the tens and other small machunes were used by wide range of things ag work, miltary, construction, dock and frieghtyard work so it would reach out to more colectors who collect diff types or if we only gonna sell a few and dont care whay they look like just let Norscot make them my main point is if we do wanna keep making models we need to make what we can sell the most of and have something that is done right like the D2 models and make limited supply so they want them now before they are gone.

jeff13
10-11-2009, 03:35 PM
Unfortunately I missed out on the early D2s when they were first available, but finally picked up the ripper version to add to my orchard, and will get the others if I luck out on a reasonable price. While the R2 looks nice, the detail level is nowhere near what I expect for a model in that price range - that is even above Ertl precision territory, and they are FAR more detailed than anything Speccast makes.

I have both Norscot 1/16 models, which were a bit overpriced too, but still manageable. I do hope that ACMOC can continue to produce 1/16 scale models, but anything over $100 is going to have to be of pretty high quality when there are other Precision tractors (which I know aren't Cats) that are now available well under that price if shopping prudently.

Added: I'm most interested in tracks. It would be great to have some of the larger machines in 1/16...

dctex99
10-12-2009, 02:15 PM
What would you consider a fair price to pay for the D2 that was done a few years ago???

Catman
10-12-2009, 03:26 PM
Willie, I agree with you :) ;)

Catman

shovel man
10-12-2009, 04:17 PM
If the D2 model had been done by Norscot then a fair price would have been about $10 lol, I agree with Willie lets have some decent models from a decent
manufacturer like First Gear or Spec Cast,

As I recall the D2 models were around the $60-70 mark and the Trackson T2
was $99 this seemed a fair price for the quality of the merchandise,

Didn't bother to order the R2 model as it looked poor quality and about $100 over priced! after all the Twenty Two model that Norscot f****d up was only about $40!

just my 2 cents,

shovel man.

Neil D
10-12-2009, 04:31 PM
I vote for the D9G- then the scraper model, these are models that will sell real well.

Have to say Willie has some good points made!!!

Neil

dctex99
10-12-2009, 06:02 PM
If the D2 model had been done by Norscot then a fair price would have been about $10 lol, I agree with Willie lets have some decent models from a decent
manufacturer like First Gear or Spec Cast,

As I recall the D2 models were around the $60-70 mark and the Trackson T2
was $99 this seemed a fair price for the quality of the merchandise,

Didn't bother to order the R2 model as it looked poor quality and about $100 over priced! after all the Twenty Two model that Norscot f****d up was only about $40!

just my 2 cents,

shovel man.

If you put the D2 & the R2 side by side, you will see they are the SAME quality; no better or worse. The difference is that since the club makes the majority of its profit from models, it decided to overcharge for the R2 and make it closer to the First Gear ones. After all,,most of you make $30 -$50 an hour running a CAT, or did before you retired; so only 3 hours work, instead of 2! Its really that simple,,,,but I am sure we will discuss it forever; and until the recession ends, they won't do any quick models, as they need to make sure they are sold AND at a high price. This is all reinforced by the fact that the D2 with blade, and D2 with ripper are bringing $150 on the secondary market, so ACMOC wants that money up front for the R2, and got it from many of us!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:D

WabcoMan
10-14-2009, 06:34 PM
I have to disagree with the variations on the DW21 (posted previously by Willie).
There are several variations to be seen within the DW21 range.
a.Early model with the sloping fuel tank & aircleaner on the left
b. DW21C with the squared off tank and aircleaner recessed into the rifght side
c. DW21G with twin aircleaners just for an example.

With a little more forethought the previously released 491 model would have been a 463 and then you would be half the way there as far as tooling costs go, both for a DW21 or DW20 as the bowl tooling could be utilized.

To say the only variation would be a water wagon is a little short sighted as there are all the Athey dump bodies, the compactor conversions etc as well

I'm all for a DW21 or DW20 but please let First Gear do the tooling, not Norscot. :)

Willie
10-14-2009, 09:03 PM
Would a normal person pay a couple hundred dollars for the same machine because one had 1 and the other had 2 aircleaners? There may be a few fools who would but certanly not enough to pay for the patern let alone a profit.And it is aimed at construction collectors only as others fit both AG and Construction.
Yes they has Athey,Yuba,and other atachments but we only have the rights to make pre 1960 Caterpillar Inc stuff,and that is only after cleared with Cat Inc who may have already gave rights for it to Norscot. We have no rights to copy any other companies stuff unless we want a big fat lawsuit.
The DW21 is a big Lose lose lose deal

WabcoMan
10-15-2009, 04:17 PM
Willie,

I can see that you have your opinion and that's OK.

I'm an ex operator & serious collector of these things and within the 'circle' of people that I work in that aren't frightened of spending $$'s for a good model, motor scrapers are very scarce and sought after items.

There is only the JD 840 elevator, IH 433 and ACMOC Cat 491 towed scra[er available in this (1/25) scale.
One has to discount the older Reuhl DW10/15 as it is ridiculously expensive and being constantly driven higher on ebay.

The market has room for another 1/25 scraper model - if not a DW21 perhaps some enterprising company could produce a Euclid TS-14 ? :cool:

alan627b
10-15-2009, 05:10 PM
I'l put my vote in for an early model scraper, whether it was a DW10, 15, 20 or 21,or even a 619. A water wagon could be added, bottom dump or rocker could be added, and you could also attach a sheepsfoot roller, either as a pulled implement or a Hyster Super Packer or American Roadrunner overhung version.
I am still hoping someone wil come out with a 3 axle 600 series someday, preferably in 1/50 so it might be affordable and fit with the majority of my existing collection...I'm just not flush enought to pay $1000+ for the Black Rat models, nice as they are.
I'd cheerfully accept a 977H as well, it they want to stick with tracked machines.
And a D9 could be made into a 594 easy enough, to get more mileage from existing molds. It worked for the First gear TD25C model.
Just my thoughts...
Alan

chugwater crawlers
10-15-2009, 06:29 PM
If I understand the previous comments from ACMOC board members the model program essentially finances the club. The membership dues just about cover the magazine costs and that's it. (Please correct me if I am misinformed.)

If this is true then it appears that we better be in the model business if we want to be anything but a magazine whether we like it or not.

CCM produces 2500 piece runs of 1:48 scale Cat stuff at about $200.00 a piece and seems to sell out of everything they make. Maybe we should look at the smaller scale??

Whatever we decide to do next we better hope it sells. Perhaps we could do a pre-order survey to guage the interest in a particular model before we produce it?

jeff13
10-17-2009, 05:43 PM
I guess one of the considerations for the model development is who these things are being marketed to. I am not an operator, and have never owned a real machine. I collect 1/16th scale tractor models, including a number of crawlers. I am not prepared to spend hundreds on a model. I do buy higher quality models (precision), but only when I find a good deal. Anything manufactured by Speccast falls below the precision line, so unless it's smething I really want, the cost has to be in line with products of similar quality. I can't comment on how well the Norscot models replicate the real thing, but their pricing around $50 was okay given that they also included a display case. The Speccast D2s I have are okay for detail, but over $100 each is pushing it - their original pricing would have been on the high side, but not unrealistic.

I can't see the economics of tooling a model that will only sell a few hundred copies, but to sell in the thousands, the pricing needs to reflect the quality offered - in other words a Speccast model should sell for at or just above what any other Speccast model would sell for, not three times as much (R2) - at least not if you don't want to have them in inventory for years.

Just offering a different perspective from someone who isn't necessarily just collecting Cat.

Willie
10-17-2009, 06:19 PM
My veiw is totally diff for few reasons,number 1 being is we are limited as Cat has already given rights to others. We have to go thru process with Cat Inc. to do any model. 2. The toys were a very good way to suport the club and bak when we were mking a very nice 1st Gear or Spec-Cast toy limited prodution selling at higher price and only yearly show relase that we sold out soon and double or tripled in value we had more money then we needed,and buying CDs with the surplus. Then the toy gods got greedy and started pumping out low qaulity,unlimited production toys that were wrong machine and not acurate ending with a wharehouse full of unwanted toys and a drain on our funds to point of stopping the the toys. Ontop or a sleazy deal by Cat Inc. with Norsot the makers of CRAP
We need a ALL new model comittee and back to the Larry Maasdam toy days where we made more money then we coulkd spend

chugwater crawlers
10-17-2009, 07:01 PM
Good points. I wonder what the current toy inventory consists of?

chugwater crawlers
10-23-2009, 03:14 PM
http://www.ccmodels.com/upcoming-666.html

Gavin84w
10-23-2009, 06:48 PM
http://www.ccmodels.com/upcoming-666.html

It,s sort of funny you say that CC, what are your thoughts on this model selling out as soon as it is released just like Willie says the ACMOC models used to? i think a big YES on that for sure. There may have been 40 year or older issues for the 666 through ACMOC and i know the CCM 666 was concieved way back in early 08 but there are a bunch of models still out there that are considered classics and could be produced and marketed successfully through ACMOC. Not sure how much discussion takes place beetween the 3 model marketers of Cat equipment in ACMOC, Norscot & CCM but i would think they all talk to a central comittee at the mothership in Peoria so it would be fair to think discussions take place on what is available to each group and what each other have for future plans. In fact if i remember correctly GWH mentioned something along those lines when the question came up about extending the proposed D9G model to DD9G and /or S X S or a 594H in order to capitalise on the original tooling and i think he said some one else maybe doing one of those models.

Lets hope Dave Tallons recent requests for pics of the DW20/21 machine is the beginings of a great model for ACMOC and i would think if cashflows are an issue what about some downpayments to confirm orders up front? i would be happy to go this way as it spreads the expenditure out over a period instead of a lump sum when released.

chugwater crawlers
10-23-2009, 07:38 PM
CCM "diecast " (not brass) models have typically sold out within a year of being produced.

It looks like the only exception is the 769 haul truck which is still available. My guess is it sells slower since it's a truck.

If the price is not to high it will probably sell out. Everyone has been saying they want one.

Let's see if they put their money where their mouth is.

Someone told me at the last Cat club meeting that they thought CCM was producing a 1:48 scale D9G.

Big or small I like them all. Just can't afford them all.

Gavin84w
10-25-2009, 12:27 AM
Someone told me at the last Cat club meeting that they thought CCM was producing a 1:48 scale D9G.



I think that it would be different and additional letters to that, ACMOC will have a D9G in the future so would be silly for another manufacturer to do it even if a different scale and we already have the old Gescha D9G in 1/50.

alan627b
10-25-2009, 06:43 PM
EMD also makes several fine variations of the D9G and D9H already. There are still a few niches nobody has filled yet.
I wish one of the model manufacturers would make a styrene Cat dealer to display the models in, like the old Farm Country buildings by Ertl, only better.
I suggested this to the president of Norscot when I met him at Conexpo 2008....nice guy.
alan

Gavin84w
11-07-2009, 06:00 PM
Probably wants a new thread but here goes, what are everybodies thoughts on the 966A from Norscot? i am very happy with it and this series in conjunction with ACMOC is IMO a great offshoot from the high calibre stuff from First Gear. Well done to all and i think a D7 out of the 572 base would be a good next up model with minimal capital outlay.