Need advice on pivot shaft rework

[puffer@rpi.edu]

I have to rework the pivot shaft on my CAT22, 2F5209. The inner bearings (1B1462/3) for the angle braces are shot and need to be re-bushed, thus the track frames flop around. The outer bearings (V-224) need to be re-bushed. They have seriously worn the pivot shaft outer end. See photos: DSC_0093 (2).jpgDSC_0094 (2).jpgDSC_0095 (2).jpg

I was able to remove the left mounting bracket (V-266), but have had no luck loosening the right bracket. Not sure I need to. I also have had no luck removing the left spacer (V-267) so that I remove the inner bearings, and don't see any way I can get a purchase on it to knock it off. Any suggestions? I am thinking I will just cut the spacer off and make a new one out of tubing.

What bothers me the most is how much the outer bearing area is worn, as can be seen in the photos. Also, the threads on the outer end are stripped. What do you think I should do? I was thinking I could try finding a machine shop that can turn down the bearing area and then undersize the bushings in the outer bearing area. Likewise, the threads could be chased or turned down slightly and then use an undersized nut.

I guess the alternative would be to try to find a pivot shaft that is in good condition and does not require as much work.

Any thoughts or suggestions are much appreciated. Ray

[Mike Meyer]

You have some good wear there, so my advice is

(A) Find a good used shaft is your easiest option, or
(B) Weld the worn sections up and have it turned in a lathe, I did that recently with my D2 4U, just remember to weld on the opposite side each pass to minimize the shaft twisting, or else
(C) Have a whole new cross shaft made, from what I recall my buddy "Farmer3" up in New Yoik State paid around $300 to have one made for his D2.

There will be plenty of folks all schmarter than me who will chime in soon, some might suggest turning that shaft down in a lathe and fitting a sleeve over it too? The bronze bearings are not hard to make, but the bronze pipe is reasonably expensive, I think I paid about $130 a foot here in Oz for mine, to get the old bushes out run a couple beads of arc weld inside them onto the bronze, it shrinks them sufficiently so you can belt them out. On the new bearings allow 1 thou per inch of diameter of your shaft, for the interference fit, I think that was the right ratio. Put the new bushes in the freezer overnight to shrink them slightly, and you can heat your track frame a bit, "Farmer3" got his Fitter and Turner to cut a slight taper at the start of his new bearings I think, to help get them started easier, my D2 had them pushed in with a press but I had to hone them afterwards to get them onto the shaft, because they "crush" when fitted into the frames, but you know that already.

Good luck, take your time, ask around for a good older Machinist and you will save more money, those folks understand old bronze bushes and a quality job, if you rush you will pay mucho dinero on these sorts of jobs, and often be wondering what the young kid at the big Engineering Shop was thinking when he did it the first time for you and screwed it up! I been there, and done that!
Mike

[puffer@rpi.edu]

You have some good wear there, so my advice is

(A) Find a good used shaft is your easiest option, or
(B) Weld the worn sections up and have it turned in a lathe, I did that recently with my D2 4U, just remember to weld on the opposite side each pass to minimize the shaft twisting, or else
(C) Have a whole new cross shaft made, from what I recall my buddy "Farmer3" up in New Yoik State paid around $300 to have one made for his D2.

There will be plenty of folks all schmarter than me who will chime in soon, some might suggest turning that shaft down in a lathe and fitting a sleeve over it too? The bronze bearings are not hard to make, but the bronze pipe is reasonably expensive, I think I paid about $130 a foot here in Oz for mine, to get the old bushes out run a couple beads of arc weld inside them onto the bronze, it shrinks them sufficiently so you can belt them out. On the new bearings allow 1 thou per inch of diameter of your shaft, for the interference fit, I think that was the right ratio. Put the new bushes in the freezer overnight to shrink them slightly, and you can heat your track frame a bit, "Farmer3" got his Fitter and Turner to cut a slight taper at the start of his new bearings I think, to help get them started easier, my D2 had them pushed in with a press but I had to hone them afterwards to get them onto the shaft, because they "crush" when fitted into the frames, but you know that already.

Good luck, take your time, ask around for a good older Machinist and you will save more money, those folks understand old bronze bushes and a quality job, if you rush you will pay mucho dinero on these sorts of jobs, and often be wondering what the young kid at the big Engineering Shop was thinking when he did it the first time for you and screwed it up! I been there, and done that!
Mike

Thanks very much for the advice, Mike. I'll take a look at all the options you suggest, and wait for others to also chime in. Does anyone know of where I might find a good used shaft? Ray

[Steve A]

I am in the process myself on a Wide 30, Getting those brackets of that shaft was tough, I made a frame of heavy 2 1/2 inch angle iron and pulled them off with a porta power and a lot of Heat. My shaft measuers 2 5/8 in the unworn spots, a little under 2 3/8 in the worn spots where the angle braces ride, and the angle brackets were near 2 3/4 making for a sloppy mess, I took my shaft that was suprisingly stright to a local machine repair company that has a lathe with a 18 foot bed and a spray ark welding set up. They will be building up the center section to 3.75 and I will boar the center and 2 angle brackets to match, they are also turning the end 3 inches true so I can rebush the end bearings, if it all works out, Dad will have a stright tracking 30 They are charging us $350

[puffer@rpi.edu]

I am in the process myself on a Wide 30, Getting those brackets of that shaft was tough, I made a frame of heavy 2 1/2 inch angle iron and pulled them off with a porta power and a lot of Heat. My shaft measuers 2 5/8 in the unworn spots, a little under 2 3/8 in the worn spots where the angle braces ride, and the angle brackets were near 2 3/4 making for a sloppy mess, I took my shaft that was suprisingly stright to a local machine repair company that has a lathe with a 18 foot bed and a spray ark welding set up. They will be building up the center section to 3.75 and I will boar the center and 2 angle brackets to match, they are also turning the end 3 inches true so I can rebush the end bearings, if it all works out, Dad will have a stright tracking 30 They are charging us $350

Steve, thanks for the input. My pivot shaft is probably in a little worse condition than yours. Today I took my assembly to a local machine shop a mile down the road that I know to be very good and showed it to them. They said that it will definitely be less costly to make a new shaft than to repair the one I have. By the end of the week they should have a complete estimate for me. I will have them do all of the bushings too so I know it will all fit well. They also have to make all washers new and one of the nuts. Mine is also a little more complex as my outer bearing housing has a significant weldment added to it to take part of the load of the dozer blade I have on it. Ray

[nw4evr]

Ray i bought a set of bushings and planned to cut the grease groove inside, then i found out the price.....WOW back up... Then i found another place that would sell me the bushings WITH the grease groove cut in however i wanted for about 10 dollars more...I don't have the name of the place with me,, (connecticut i think).,,, call me sometime and i can look up the name and phone # of the place,,,, I have the original set of 4 bushings that needs to be grooved inside and the OD turned down a bit if you, or anyone out there ,are interested in them. .... Dave 920 210-2875

[Steve A]

I buy all my bushings here, look up what u need or close, order through the online store and then machine to fit if needed, cheaper and faster than making them from solid brass.

http://www.asbbearings.com/index.html

Dads Cat 30 shaft is done , will post a pic this weekend

[the Farmer3]

You have some good wear there, so my advice is

(A) Find a good used shaft is your easiest option, or
(B) Weld the worn sections up and have it turned in a lathe, I did that recently with my D2 4U, just remember to weld on the opposite side each pass to minimize the shaft twisting, or else
(C) Have a whole new cross shaft made, from what I recall my buddy "Farmer3" up in New Yoik State paid around $300 to have one made for his D2.

There will be plenty of folks all schmarter than me who will chime in soon, some might suggest turning that shaft down in a lathe and fitting a sleeve over it too? The bronze bearings are not hard to make, but the bronze pipe is reasonably expensive, I think I paid about $130 a foot here in Oz for mine, to get the old bushes out run a couple beads of arc weld inside them onto the bronze, it shrinks them sufficiently so you can belt them out. On the new bearings allow 1 thou per inch of diameter of your shaft, for the interference fit, I think that was the right ratio. Put the new bushes in the freezer overnight to shrink them slightly, and you can heat your track frame a bit, "Farmer3" got his Fitter and Turner to cut a slight taper at the start of his new bearings I think, to help get them started easier, my D2 had them pushed in with a press but I had to hone them afterwards to get them onto the shaft, because they "crush" when fitted into the frames, but you know that already.

Good luck, take your time, ask around for a good older Machinist and you will save more money, those folks understand old bronze bushes and a quality job, if you rush you will pay mucho dinero on these sorts of jobs, and often be wondering what the young kid at the big Engineering Shop was thinking when he did it the first time for you and screwed it up! I been there, and done that!
Mike

Hello Mike,
You must be thinking of someone else who had a new pivot shaft made.
I had mine welded up and turned.

[puffer@rpi.edu]

Ray i bought a set of bushings and planned to cut the grease groove inside, then i found out the price.....WOW back up... Then i found another place that would sell me the bushings WITH the grease groove cut in however i wanted for about 10 dollars more...I don't have the name of the place with me,, (connecticut i think).,,, call me sometime and i can look up the name and phone # of the place,,,, I have the original set of 4 bushings that needs to be grooved inside and the OD turned down a bit if you, or anyone out there ,are interested in them. .... Dave 920 210-2875

Dave, I'll see what this machine shop has to say and maybe give you a call after I get their complete estimate. Thanks, Ray

[Mike Meyer]

Hello Mike,
You must be thinking of someone else who had a new pivot shaft made.
I had mine welded up and turned.

Sorry for that mistake, I thought you had a new shaft made for the "Garden Gnome", it might have been Chriscokid then?? Is the Gnome moving under it's own power again Joe?
regards
Mike