Flywheel removal, clutch specs, and throwout bearing cage wear

[puffer@rpi.edu]

I have broken apart the engine and transmission on my CAT22 so that I can install a new flywheel ring gear (see photo). I was able to remove the throwout bearing and cage, and found a new bearing (BCA 209S) on ebay for $17.95 with free shipping.

Judging from the parts manual I am assuming that to remove the flywheel I just loosen the eight nuts, 2B6309, and springs, 2B4824, so that I can get to the six bolts, T532, that hold the flywheel to the crankshaft, correct? DO I need any special spring compressor to do this, or do the springs lose all compression by the time the nuts come loose? When I reinstall the springs and nuts does anyone know what the proper torque spec is?

Does anyone know what the proper thickness is for the clutch disk, and what the minimum allowable thickness is? Who sells new clutch disks, or who can reline them?

Are there any specs on the allowable wear of the throwout bearing cage, 1A1311? Can't tell if mine needs to be replaced or not. If so, where is the best place to get one?

The lining on the clutch brake, V407, looks like it is a little chewed up, but not down to the rivets. Again, is there a wear spec, and who can reline the brake? Do I need to remove the large nut on the transmission input shaft to get the brake flange off, or are the two cap screws, T102, all that hold the brake flange in place?

Finally, I do feel some play in the transmission input shaft bearing. How much is too much, and how difficult is it to take it apart to replace the bearing. Not sure I want to go there.

Thanks for your help. Ray

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[lil cat mec]

how is the ring gear atched? how hard is/was it to install with the motor/transmittion split?
as for taking the pressure plate off all it is is those 8 bolts/springs and you can just use a air ratchet or impact to take them off(just for speed you shouldn't need much pressure) and the pressure plate will sit on the studs!

[Mike Meyer]

Unless I'm mistaken, and I usually are, the tension on the main clutch is determined by those 8 large bolts and there is no torque spec., so it is critical you count the number of turns it takes to undo the nuts off them because you will need that info when you re-install the main clutch to get the tension right. That question gets asked here often and no one has the answer, now's your chance to help others with a 22 main clutch in pieces.

That clutch shaft brake looks good to me, it has 4 bolts securing it, but I wouldn't touch it other than to give it a good wash with a solvent to remove old oil and rust, it will have inert asbestos in it so exercise your usual common sense. Others will chime in, but those input shafts do have some float in them, if I was you I'd replace the seal on that input shaft because it will be probably allowing oil to weep into the clutch compartment unless it has been replaced by a previous owner. Replacing seals as they become accessible in a old Cat is cheap and sensible.
regards
Mike.

[puffer@rpi.edu]

Unless I'm mistaken, and I usually are, the tension on the main clutch is determined by those 8 large bolts and there is no torque spec., so it is critical you count the number of turns it takes to undo the nuts off them because you will need that info when you re-install the main clutch to get the tension right. That question gets asked here often and no one has the answer, now's your chance to help others with a 22 main clutch in pieces.

That clutch shaft brake looks good to me, it has 4 bolts securing it, but I wouldn't touch it other than to give it a good wash with a solvent to remove old oil and rust, it will have inert asbestos in it so exercise your usual common sense. Others will chime in, but those input shafts do have some float in them, if I was you I'd replace the seal on that input shaft because it will be probably allowing oil to weep into the clutch compartment unless it has been replaced by a previous owner. Replacing seals as they become accessible in a old Cat is cheap and sensible.
regards
Mike.

Mike, before I take the clutch apart I'll measure what the current torque is on all of the nuts. That information may be of help to some. Of course if I have my clutch disk relined the torque will be different. I'll also count the turns and measure the torque when I put it back together.

I assume to get the seal out I need to loosen the large nut on the input shaft. Any suggestions on the best way to do that? I am not sure just how to get in there to loosen it, and how to hold the shaft from turning while doing it. Is there a special long socket used to get onto that nut? I got the transmission and final drive seal and gasket set from Olsen's Gaskets. I am hoping that set includes the transmission input shaft seal.

Do you know if there is a pilot bushing in the center of the end of the crankshaft for the front end of the transmission input shaft to ride in? I can't tell from the parts manual. Is that the 1B3738 bearing on page 23 of the parts manual?

When I have replaced clutch disks on classic cars I have restored I would typically make or buy a dummy pilot transmission shaft to use to properly center the clutch. If you don't do that it is impossible to get the transmission shaft to seat into the pilot bushing on the crankshaft. Is that the same with the CAT clutch? Do you know anyone who sells dummy shafts?

Thanks, mate. Ray

[puffer@rpi.edu]

how is the ring gear atched? how hard is/was it to install with the motor/transmittion split?
as for taking the pressure plate off all it is is those 8 bolts/springs and you can just use a air ratchet or impact to take them off(just for speed you shouldn't need much pressure) and the pressure plate will sit on the studs!

lcm, The ring gear is a shrink fit onto the flywheel. To get the old one off you can cut it off with your torch, or just heat it and let it fall off. To put the new ring gear on you set it on the flywheel with the chamfer toward the flywheel, then heat it and let it expand. It will fall on by itself. Just make sure it is fully seated all the way around or it can chew up the pinion on your starter. I have also seen some folks heat the new ring gear in their oven (don't tell your wife or mother), then take it out and drop it on. If I recall, however, you have a starter on the rear of your 22, so you probably do not have a ring gear on your flywheel, correct? Ray

[edb]

Hi Ray,
the trans/clutch shaft spigot bearing assem. is the 1B3738 you mention to go into the cranshaft.

As for the clutch pressure plate spring retaining nuts.
I would believe that they need to go back on to be about flush with the ends of the studs.

As per some old auto/vehicle clutches, the nuts would then be tweeked to allow the pressure plate to withdraw and hold evenly to the disengaged position, ie, adjust out any spring pressure differences.
If you had springs with vastly differing spring pressures then the P/plate would hold unevenly but if adjusted for tension evenly would withdraw/disengage smoothly and not shudder on engagement.

Yes, you will need a clutch aligner tool, you would have to make your own unless one of the cheap asian kits had something suitable in it. They seem to go cheap at the local auto accessory shops here in OZ.
Hope this helps.
Cheers,
Eddie B.

[puffer@rpi.edu]

Hi Ray,
the trans/clutch shaft spigot bearing assem. is the 1B3738 you mention to go into the cranshaft.

As for the clutch pressure plate spring retaining nuts.
I would believe that they need to go back on to be about flush with the ends of the studs.

As per some old auto/vehicle clutches, the nuts would then be tweeked to allow the pressure plate to withdraw and hold evenly to the disengaged position, ie, adjust out any spring pressure differences.
If you had springs with vastly differing spring pressures then the P/plate would hold unevenly but if adjusted for tension evenly would withdraw/disengage smoothly and not shudder on engagement.

Yes, you will need a clutch aligner tool, you would have to make your own unless one of the cheap asian kits had something suitable in it. They seem to go cheap at the local auto accessory shops here in OZ.
Hope this helps.
Cheers,
Eddie B.

Thanks, Eddie I just found out why my gears would grind some times when trying to shift. As it turns out the two capscrews, T-102, that are supposed to hold the clutch brake flange onto the spacer, V-36, were totally missing. I have no idea where they went, they were not in the bottom of the housing. While I have the brake flange out I might as well have it relined. Then the question is, which set of holes in the brake flange do I use for the capscrews? As you can see in the photos there are three different locations for the capscrews, which will result in the brake flange being located a different positions along the spacer and shaft. I am guessing they are that way to allow for some adjustment as the lining wears. Unless someone has a suggestion I guess I'll start with the capscrews in the center set of holes. Ray DSC_0098.jpgDSC_0099.jpgDSC_0100.jpgDSC_0101.jpgDSC_0102.jpgDSC_0103.jpg

[edb]

Hi Ray,
acording to the OMI, with the clutch engaged, there should be about 1/16" clearance from the throwout flange to the brake flange. ie, the clutch only needs 1/16" movement, minimum, of the throw out to disengage the clutch before the brake becomes into play.
To adjust, turn the flange to match up another set of holes that will give nearest to the 1/16" minimum dimension of throwout flange movement. Replace and tighten the bolts.

Cheers,
Eddie B.

[Mike Meyer]

Good info again from our Aussie Legend, Mr. EDB, thanks for chiming in Eddy, I recall reading recently here or on ACME someone asking about those main clutch nuts and how tight they should be re-installed and from memory the official advice from Cat in 1936 was to count the bolt threads as you undid them and return the nuts the same number of turns, which is of no use to someone like me who has a 22 engine and main clutch apart courtesy of a previous owner.

I'd be curious to see a closer photo of the clutch nuts before they got undone, because from 8,000 miles away those nuts all seem to be sitting at different heights on the studs?.
regards
Mike

[lil cat mec]

Ray you are correct, i don't have a ring gear i was just thinking about the future... possibly setting it up for a better starter