Steering Clutch D42T Trunion Slop

[bernie]

OK-Having a plus and minus day.

Pluses...got my pad scraped down where I want it and lined it with my backfill material to hold in my stone, (quarter minus), in place. Pushed out some briars and freed up my adjustment screw and lock nut on my steering clutches. Was able to bleed my fuel filter housing at the dial needle and the side needle with my goofy contraption, (other post with pics). The dial needle must have been clogged-took the sleeve out and cleaned it-worked fine.

Minus...ordered fifteen loads of stone for first thing this morning. Three triaxles arrived on schedule, the ground was too soft and all three got stuck.

Plus...I told a driver I had a small tractor we could try to pull them out with but it would take a few minutes to fire her up. He was a little skeptical, I just did not know. My D42T pulled all of them out, SHE WAS MARVELOUS, (i was lucky)!

Here is the big minus-

My control lever for the right steering clutch, (D42T9069SP), lost all resistance while I was pushing a small bite of piled dirt. I took off the inspection plate and noticed the trunion, (3B320), has a lot of play side to side about the axis of the shaft, (3B238). It has no resistance to the outside/right side. The crank, (3B292), holds the adjusting screw, (3B273), just fine to the inside/left and moves fine with the lever. However because there is no resistance when the crank pushes out with lever pulling back, the steering clutch cannot engage. The lever has absolutely NO resistance to the outside.

I did adjust out all the way the adjusting screw, (3B273), and it was not enough to push the screw into the crank socket. I do not think that would have mattered anyway.

Something has snapped. I did not hear anything, but the lever moves totally free. I have not seen the inside of the steering clutch compartment other than from the inspection plate under the seat. Not much room there to see or feel.

I do not think that pulling the trucks made a difference-I did no steering while pulling and pulled them at most 10 feet or so. I did not over exert her on pushing and rarely do I steer while pushing because I could only use my right steering clutch and brake since my left brake drops to the floor with no grab. I have been nursing her along until I have a suitable place to work on her, which is my current project.

The clutch lever has felt different at various times over the past 3 or 4 hours of use, sometimes having significant resistance and other times haveing slightly less. Always, engaging both clutches without using the brake(s) will make the tractor stop but it takes as much as 15 feet of travel, so both have been working.

Any diagnoses is appreciated. And an explanation of what the trunion are connect to that engages the clutch would help too. I have the parts book, service manual, operations manual, (repro sort of hard to see pics sometimes), so I hopfully can follow along with those.

Oh, one more Plus...I have access to this resource.

Thanks as always-
bernie

[Old Magnet]

Hi Bernie,
Trunnion 3B320 moves the arms 3B272 that pivot around shaft 3B238 which moves the throw-out bearing cage 3B343 to mechanically disengage the steering clutch which has spring return.

Sounds like you have a classic case of clutch pack sticking due to rust, tooth wear, weak springs, binding, crud, etc. so that the spring return is not functioning. Also check the 3B569 bearings (4) but it is usually the top two that trap moisture and rust up. Also could be clutch release bearing hanging up on shaft.

Lack of use is a common culprit and operation usually improves with use. Occasionally you get lucky and can recover by adjusting the 3B273 all the way to the end so that you are working the clutch pack a little in hopes that it will free up then readjust back to normal if it does.

Could be your first new shop project will be a steering clutch inspection and overhaul.

[bernie]

OM-your suggestion with the steering clutch release bearing hit a chord with me. My cups are broken off and probably have been for a long time due to the looks of them. I've been casually looking for a pair. I have personally put probably 15 hours on the right steering clutch and have not oiled the steering clutch release bearings one time. Who knows how long it has been.

I can see the tube assembly, (6B6371-RH) and get to it. My first thought is to mix penetrating oil with some SAE 30 and pour it in and see if it will free the release bearings up, if that makes sense.

The bearings, (3B569), do seem to be working fine, but truthfully, I will need to take another look at that on the tractor. With the way the truninion is freely travelling around, it seems those bearings would not cause this problem.

Weak springs seem not to fit as well since I have been feeling resistance in the operation of the control.

Binding or tooth wear or a tooth breaking off, or maybe a broken spring seem like they may be the best analysis with exception to the potential with the release bearings. Those two because this event seemed to have happened instantaneously.

Your suggestion that operation frees it up makes me wonder how in this instance. If when the lever is pulled to engage the clutch there is no resistance and just a floating trunion mecahnism, what will the operation do?
Is it the vibration of the machine that could free it up? As it is, the steering clutch will not engage/disengage.

The right steering clutch is not engaged now. I know that because hitting the right brake causes no real direction change as it does with the clutch engaged.


Thanks OM-boy the undercarriage thread suggestion sure blew up...did not expect that one. I will lay low on that as I have no real help to offer as far as I can see.

I appreciate you generous expenditure of time and resources!

bernie

[Delta Dirt]

bernie & Magnet---

This post is just one more prime example of Old Magnet's continuing contribution of legitimate and helpful information to the ACMOC bulletin board.

So Magnet---while its quiet and peaceful on this post for right now, I will say thank you again for all of your contributions----sorry for all the commotion on bernie's other post. It was not my intentions to start a p--sing contest.

Delta Dirt

[Old Magnet]

Hey DD,
No problem, after all the butts are sniffed and the turf marked it's back to old tractors. This BB stuff is like buying a tractor, looks good until you go to use it.

Bernie,
It's hard to keep everything clear and hit so many topics.
By operation improves a sticking clutch I mean one that is working but is slightly hesitant on return. By adjusting beyond normal operation range you can sometimes obtain enough movement to get it to recover. If it's stuck hard it may not recover. Just went through the same drill with one of my D4's, it did recover and I have since given it a good work out and it is working ok but I know the springs are a little weak.

Good idea to get some lube in there for both the bearing rotation and the slide movement on the shaft.

Rust is the biggest culprit cause for sticking steering clutches. Sometimes filling the steering clutch compartment with kerosene or diesel and letting them soak will help free them but it really is a crap shoot.

[ccjersey]

Bernie,

It's confusing the terminology you are using about engaging a steering clutch. I think I understand you, but when you pull the lever, you DIS engage the clutch, as in you compress the springs in the clutch pack and open up space between the steel and lined disks so there is slippage. The only thing that can ENgage a steering clutch is the springs pushing it back together. There's a bunch of them, so even if one broke suddenly, that by itself wouldn't do it, just be putting another nail in the coffin.

I would go whole hog and fill the compartments with fuel up to the steering clutches and move the tractor back and forth or work it around as much as possible. If you don't want to do that, certainly oil the release bearings, but I always thought that that lube was more for the bearing (races and balls) itself and if it failed, there would be a problem disengaging the clutch, not the other way around.

May not cause it to engage, but everything in there will be easier to get loose when you have to tear it down.

I've always wondered about putting the fuel in there and "forgetting" to let it out when the clutch freed itself up. Wonder if it would swell the linings or cause other problems?

[English Al]

Berni, im'e with CCJ on this and think the righthand steering clutch release bearing has colapsed,a common failure if you do not oil them periodically.Your mention of the different feel when operating the lever over a period of time is why I am of this opinion. Cheers Al

[bernie]

Thanks guys-

OM-I am working on cutting through the clutter with my questions.

CCJ-I transpose 3's and 4's sometimes when I write them down next to each other too if I am not careful. I am glad you took the time to understand what I was trying to say. I get going and...

All of you-I will soak the steering clutch compartment. I drained the compartment months ago. Those plugs were as close to welded on by grit, rust and dirt as anything I have seen. I used a galvanized pipe end cap with a square external wrench nipple to finally get them out. The nipple fit right in the inverted square plug fitting. Quite a bit of water, maybe a quart of water from each side and some packed grease. I would think it was done until I pushed a screwdriver in the holes and loosened some more grease and another flood would come. I almost soaked it then since I had done every other compartment, but I had not read that anywhere and thought it was a bad idea due to the brake bands.

It is hard to say when the last time the release bearings were lubricated. I have put probably 15 operating hours on them, but since the cups are broken off, I'll bet it has been a long time. I saw them in the lube chart early on but could not find them on my machine and did not make that a priority, damn. It was within the last few weeks I noticed what was supposed to be there while examining my parts book. I think I have someone who has a pair.

Just trying to nurse her back into my old barn for now-then in her new home in a month or so. I cannot stand her being out in this Indiana weather. Especially this year.

Bright side is that I do believe the main is sound and the starting enging is in fair to good shape. Its biggest problem is the carburetor adjustment. I have done some adjustment on it, but it is hard to convince myself at this stage to mess with it too much since she fires and starts and idles fine and starts the main every time.

I will keep you posted-thanks again, I appreciate your intrest and help. I know it is genuine!

bernie
(here she is if you have not seen her)

http://www.picturetrail.com/uid6748227