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Thread: D4 5T Service Job Recommendations

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
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    Twin Falls Idaho
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    15

    Default D4 5T Service Job Recommendations

    Hello all,

    After 3 days of busted knuckles, and 2 bottles of gojo hand cleaner, I finally got our D4 pony motor up an going. It has a bit of a knock, so new rod bearings will be coming soon. I ran into a few issues with the startup of the tractor, and I have experience with our 2H D6 starting sequence and how "smooth" the pinion engages and what not. On the D4, however, it is a little more worn out, and just "tired".

    So on for the questions:

    1) how is the best way to adjust the starter pinion clutch?

    2)the pinion does not like to stay engaged when turning over the diesel. I know it could be worn pinion latches, or my pony could be spinning the pinion too fast, thus keeping the latches from holding it. When i hold it in to keep the diesel rolling, it feels rough, and defininitely not smooth.

    3) what are your oil reccomendations for the pinion clutch? Ive heard ATF is a favorite, but what have y'all found works best?

    4) would putting Lucas oil additive in the pony be detrimental? The lube system is splash, and i want to make sure I don't inhibit that from happening if i "thicken" the oil with an additive.

    5) what would be the best oil to use in the Diesel engine? Right now i have a 5 gallon pail of Sinclair 30 W standard motor oil. Would a 10-30 delo be a better choice? ( I don't want to spark a oil controversy)

    6) is there a cross reference for the oil filter to a Baldwin/Hastings number?

    I really appreciate the help from this forum and from ACMOC in general, so even if you don't have any answers, thanks for at least reading my post!

    Thanks,
    Wyatt

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Twin Falls Idaho
    Posts
    15

    Default

    Heres a pic to give y'all a idea of what i got. The dozer frame is getting a rework asap!
    Attached Images Attached Images

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Faunsdale, AL USA
    Posts
    3,209

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Youngfordkid View Post
    Hello all,

    After 3 days of busted knuckles, and 2 bottles of gojo hand cleaner, I finally got our D4 pony motor up an going. It has a bit of a knock, so new rod bearings will be coming soon. I ran into a few issues with the startup of the tractor, and I have experience with our 2H D6 starting sequence and how "smooth" the pinion engages and what not. On the D4, however, it is a little more worn out, and just "tired".

    So on for the questions:

    1) how is the best way to adjust the starter pinion clutch?
    NOT TOO EASY ON THE ONE YOU HAVE WITH JUST A PLUG TO SCREW OUT. IT CAN BE DONE IF YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING. LOOK UP THE YOUTUBE VIDEOS SHOWING THE MECHANiSM POSTED BY SASQUATCH, A MEMBER HERE. NOTE, THE ONLY ADJUSTMENT IS TO THE CLUTCH, THIS DOES NOT NEED MUCH OF A SNAP TO PULL THE DIESEL JUST FINE.
    2)the pinion does not like to stay engaged when turning over the diesel. I know it could be worn pinion latches, or my pony could be spinning the pinion too fast, thus keeping the latches from holding it. When i hold it in to keep the diesel rolling, it feels rough, and defininitely not smooth.
    IT IS PROBABLY FFEELING ROUGH BECAUSE THE ENGAGEMENT FINGER AND BUTTON ON THE PINION ARE GETTING DAMAGED BY HAVING TO HOLD IT IN ENGAGEMENT. NORMALLY THERE IS NO ROTATION WHILE YOU ARE DOING THAT.

    3) what are your oil reccomendations for the pinion clutch? Ive heard ATF is a favorite, but what have y'all found works best?
    ATF IS A GOOD SOLUTION TO ONE THAT IS VERY HARD TO BRAKE THE PINION AND KEEP FROM GRINDING AS YOU ATTEMPT TO SHIFT THE PINION. IT LESSENS THE DRAG BETWEEN THE CLUTCH DISKS CAUSED BY OLD SLUDGY MOTOR OIL. PROBABLY BEST IS TO FLUSH THE COMPARTMENT WITH DIESEL AND REFILL WITH CLEAN OIL.


    4) would putting Lucas oil additive in the pony be detrimental? The lube system is splash, and i want to make sure I don't inhibit that from happening if i "thicken" the oil with an additive.
    THE NORMAL PROBLEM WITH PONY OIL IS BEING THIN FROM GASOLINE DILUTION. ALWAYS SHUT OFF THE GAS TO THE PONY AND I LET IT RUN UNTIL IT QUITS TO GET AS MUCH OUT OF THE CARB BOWL AS POSSIBLE.

    5) what would be the best oil to use in the Diesel engine? Right now i have a 5 gallon pail of Sinclair 30 W standard motor oil. Would a 10-30 delo be a better choice? ( I don't want to spark a oil controversy)
    THAT IS A GOOD CHOICE. DELO OR OTHER QUALITY MULTI-GRADE DIESEL ENGINE OIL WILL PROVIDE GOOD SERVICE AS WELL. MIGHT EXPERIENCE LESS OIL CONSUMPTION WITH THE STRAIGHT 30.

    6) is there a cross reference for the oil filter to a Baldwin/Hastings number?
    YES, BUT FIRST NEED TO KNOW WHAT FILTER YOURS HAS ON IT. TAKE IT OUT AND TAKE IT IN TO CROSS IT OVER. IF YOURS HAS BEEN CONVERTED TO FULL FLOW A WIX 51161/NAPA1161 IS YOUR FILTER. HOWEVER YOURS WOULD HAVE COME FROM THE FACTORY WITH A BYPASS FILTER THAT YOU WOULD RRECOGNIZE BY IT HAVING A WASHABLE BRASS SCREEN ON THE DISPOSABLE FILTER INSIDE

    I really appreciate the help from this forum and from ACMOC in general, so even if you don't have any answers, thanks for at least reading my post!

    Thanks,
    Wyatt
    Sorry about the all caps, its just the best way I could keep the responses separate from the questions!

    Your pony sounds like it is in danger of grenading! I would not keep running it, oil additive or not. You may find that the crankshaft has already been turned to an undersize so check dimensions carefully before you assemble it with the new bearings. Lots of them have been overhauled in the 70 plus years since they left the factory.

    Probably your best option is going to be pulling your pinion and inspecting the latches and latching "nut" shoulder for wear etc. If you keep using the lever to keep it engaged you will likely end up having to split the tractor to repair the engagement mechanism. Of course if your pony is overspeeding, fix that by adjusting the governor spring tension before you go farther into it.
    Last edited by ccjersey; 10-20-2017 at 09:12 AM.
    D2-5J's, D6-9U's, D318 and D333 power units, 12E-99E grader, 922B & 944A wheel loaders, D330C generator set, DW20 water tanker and a bunch of Jersey cows to take care of in my spare time

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Pittsford NY
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    3,195

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    Adding to cc's comments, the pony engine only uses a quart of oil or thereabouts, so change it frequently. So long as it's clean and up to the mark, the oil won't contribute to issues. However if you have worn bearings (mains especially), change them before the engine disintegrates. The mains are held in position by dowels, which also permit oil to pass from a trough into the bearing surface. If the bearings are serviceable (axial and radial float), but the dowel hole is worn, just pull the dowel, rotate the bearing some, and drill a new dowel hole in the bearing
    Cheers,
    Neil.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    McBEE, SC
    Posts
    1,524

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    Your engine bearings, it is more common to find good rod bearings with bad main bearings than the other way around. Grab the pony flywheel and try to shake it- what do you observe? If you have a dial indicator get a figure from any movement.
    D2 5u & 3J
    212 9T
    RD4
    D4 7J & 7U
    R4 4G
    Gas 35's
    Diesel 35
    Diesel 40
    Gas 50's 5A
    Diesel 50 1E1755
    D 8800 power unit 9J 6113SP
    LeTourneau D4 tournapull/Q Carryall
    Letourneau D Carryall's
    LaPlant-Choate CAB-97

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Twin Falls Idaho
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    Thanks for all the responses!

    I have come to the conclusion that I'm gonna pull the pony motor off the tractor. After discussing it with my father who is part owner of it, we decided it might be better to just go through it, fix any problems or potential problems so that it will be good to go for another 70 years.

    The starter pinion will get pulled and inspected, just as a safety measure so that it doesn't grenade. On my d6, the bolts that hold the pinion latch mechanism backed out and destroyed it, so I don't want to see that happen on the D4.

    Thanks again, I'll post pics of tomorrow's progress on pulling the motor and what I find internally, etc.

    Thanks!

    Wyatt

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Twin Falls Idaho
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    Default Update

    So Saturday was filled with the adventure of pulling the pony motor off the tractor, which was a little easier than on my D6. I have determined that the rear main bearing is shot in the pony, the flywheel side seems ok, but I haven't taken precise measurements yet. I was surprised on how clean things are inside the engine, but the water passages in the bottom of the cylinders are plugged along with the return on the diesel, so that will have to get flushed out.

    I did find out why the starter pinion would not stay latched, the bolts holding the sleeve on to the gear came out, it doesn't look like they destroyed anything, but I didn't get a chance to look very close either. I did fish out one of the bolts through the drain plug on the bottom of the clutch housing.

    So to fix the starter pinion would it be recommended to pull the clutch housing top half, or pull the governor off the diesel and go out the front?

    Here's a few pics.

    Thanks!
    Wyatt

    IMG_0088.jpgIMG_0091.jpgIMG_0092.jpgIMG_0093.jpg

  8. #8
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    Nov 2006
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    Corralitos, Ca.
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    No need to remove the governor on a 5T.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
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    Twin Falls Idaho
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    Hey oldmagnet,

    I am not quite sure how you would it out without removing the back of the governor housing, perhaps I am missing something? If there is a method to it, could you please explain?

    Thanks!
    Wyatt

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
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    Corralitos, Ca.
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    The pony starter mechanism should clear below the governor on the D4400. It's the later D4's that have the clearance issues although some folks are able to remove them without removing the governor cover and some can't. Also helps if you can engage the pinion to shorten the overall length although that can be a problem if it will not latch. In your case if the engagement sleeve is detached that shouldn't be an issue.

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