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Thread: Stuck In Hawaii D9G Still Wont start!!! Bad Injection Pump????

  1. #421
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    Eastern Ontario, Canada
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    60

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deas Plant. View Post
    Hi, gvanhouten.
    TDC of any cylinder is almost impossible to establish accurately without either an ACCURATE measuring device of some sort or access to the relevant journals on the crankshaft 'cos there is an arc of maybe 10 to 15 degrees of crankshaft rotation where there will be very little detectable movement of the piston - and yet that arc will affect injection timing quite dramatically.

    IMHO, you need to determine EXACT TDC on #1 at end of compression-start of firing/power stroke. Valve lash will only get you close as will the brazing rod in the injector or pre-com hole - unless you have some pretty accurate measuring device to detect the minute piston movement through that 10 - 15 degree arc at the top of the stroke. An engine with removable crankshaft access panels makes this a little easier as you can physically see and measure the angle of the relevant section of the crankshaft and then compare that to the timing marks.

    This 10 - 15 degree arc is part of the reason for checking TDC BOTH ways through the crankshaft rotation. The other part of the reason is to remove any slack in the timing gear train. To do that, you need to make your last TDC check in the normal direction of rotation for the crankshaft.

    Once you have established that you are EXACTLY at TDC, then you can go ahead with injection timing.

    Might sound a little 'obvious' but I have seen some apparently good mechanics doing some head scratching over it.

    Just my 0.02.
    Deas,
    As an alternative bush fix could George note when the brazing rod stops moving up, mark the flywheel, then note as soon as itís moving down and mark the flywheel again?
    Tdc should be between these marks on the flywheel within a couple degrees. Enough to time it and get it out of the bush.
    My 2 pennies!

    Also George itís encouraging that you were close again to having it light up. That means air should be out of the system. Also scoping the intake and exhaust is a big plus too. Youíre getting closer.

  2. #422
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Gold Coast, Queensland, Australia
    Posts
    4,907

    Default Would likely be close

    Hi, Dizzel.
    Doing it thataway would likely get you close enough to get it running and get it out of there, maybe even to keep working it. Doing it several times may even give a lesser 'margin of error'.

    Might not be a bad idea either to put a fine ink pen mark on the rod at surface level on your first test and that will give some warning as you come up to TDC on the second test so that you can go extra carefully but that will only work if the position of the rod on the piston top does not change.

    Just my 0.02.
    You have a wonderful day. Best wishes.

    Deas Plant.

  3. #423
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    416

    Default brazing rod

    What is assuring one that the rod is not slipping on the top of the piston?
    Timing does not have to be 100% but certainly a margin of 15 degrees either way would cause some big headaches.
    cts

  4. #424
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    330

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dizzel View Post
    Deas,
    As an alternative bush fix could George note when the brazing rod stops moving up, mark the flywheel, then note as soon as itís moving down and mark the flywheel again?
    Tdc should be between these marks on the flywheel within a couple degrees. Enough to time it and get it out of the bush.
    My 2 pennies!

    Also George itís encouraging that you were close again to having it light up. That means air should be out of the system. Also scoping the intake and exhaust is a big plus too. Youíre getting closer.

    Thank you Dizzel, Yes everyone on this site that helped is amazing and well worth the price of admission... I have ordered through cat the gear and adapter plate that attaches to the starter.... Of course the starter must be removed but oh well it must be done to get her right....

    I like that as well as those two points should be the same... as rotating it 360 the opposite direction... I am confident she will start with the right timing because damn she is so close... But a number of people on here are saying we are out 15 degrees... But that is across all lifters for timing of IP pump.... That my friends is huge...... Actually it might be more as I set the Injection pump 15 degrees out to begin with and then the lifters are 15 degrees out on top of each cylinder... you do the math.... The funny thing here is it sounds way better and is closer to starting...

  5. #425
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    330

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    Quote Originally Posted by ctsnowfighter View Post
    What is assuring one that the rod is not slipping on the top of the piston?
    Timing does not have to be 100% but certainly a margin of 15 degrees either way would cause some big headaches.
    cts
    For what it is worth I am feeling the headaches and need an aspirin please... Isn't this all fun???? In my sick way I really do love this....

    Thank you everyone

  6. #426
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Faunsdale, AL USA
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    4,149

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    The ability to turn the engine easily will be huge.

    Rods etc stuck through precombustion chamber should hit in the bowl of the piston...should be fairly stable, but if piston moves down much the precombustion chamber being angled a little will make the resting point move. I think moving it down 10-15 mm or less it would be able to measure it accurately enough to determine if the piston moves down or up which is what would happen if the flywheel is 15 degrees off.
    Last edited by ccjersey; 12-10-2019 at 07:58 PM.
    D2-5J's, D6-9U's, D318 and D333 power units, 12E-99E grader, 922B & 944A wheel loaders, D330C generator set, DW20 water tanker and a bunch of Jersey cows to take care of in my spare time

  7. #427
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Lancaster CA
    Posts
    654

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    The tried and thru way to find exact TDC is a solid stop bolt down through the prechamber hole. Turn crank till piston hits the bolt. Mark flywheel. Then turn the crank the opposite direction till piston hits the bolt. Again mark the flywheel. TDC will be half way between these 2 marks. I sent George a picture of a washer brazed to the top of a injector nozzle retaining nut. (4F5677) He attaches a 1/4 inch all thread stock to that washer (nut on each side) and he has a fully adjustable stop bolt to screw down through the 1/4 " hole in the pre chamber. With the turning device this should be very doable.
    Last edited by oldbeek; 12-10-2019 at 07:56 PM.
    Cat 12 grader, 8T6995 running and restoring, Cat 12 grader 9K3585. parts machine, Adams leaning wheel Pull grader Mod # 22, ser#438

  8. #428
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Faunsdale, AL USA
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    Then the difficulty will be scribing perfect precise marks on flywheel.

    Best to braze a nut to washer and then screw the all thread down with a jamb nut on top of the brazed one
    D2-5J's, D6-9U's, D318 and D333 power units, 12E-99E grader, 922B & 944A wheel loaders, D330C generator set, DW20 water tanker and a bunch of Jersey cows to take care of in my spare time

  9. #429
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    330

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    Quote Originally Posted by ccjersey View Post
    Then the difficulty will be scribing perfect precise marks on flywheel.

    Best to braze a nut to washer and then screw the all thread down with a jamb nut on top of the brazed one
    Why in life is everything so damn difficult???? Ha ha I will use a pen. Tipex or something equivalent....Any other ideas remember the size of the flywheel window....

  10. #430
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
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    330

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    Quote Originally Posted by gvanhouten View Post
    Why in life is everything so damn difficult???? Ha ha I will use a pen. Tipex or something equivalent....Any other ideas remember the size of the flywheel window....
    Just an update... I am traveling next week for business back to the east coast I will be back at it with all my tools the following Monday which is the 23rd.... I will adjust everything yet again and give you updates when I am back at her.... I will miss her for the week.... Thank you everyone for helping me and I will get back at it shortly..... Hang in there like I need to.... Maybe if I am good Santa will bring me home my D9G..... Of course his sleigh will be a lowboy for this one.... Ha ha ha or ho ho ho.....

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