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Can a Ensign Bet carb replace a BeV carb on a Cat 15 or 8C 20?

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1 month 1 week ago #229240 by Mike Meyer
There are some interesting discussions happening in different parts of the world outside the USA about the possible manufacture of new replica Ensign carbs to suit the small Gas Cats like the 10, 15 and 8C20, can someone knowledeable on this topic please clarify if a Ensign Bet 1" carb from a Cat 10 be used on a larger Cat 15 and 8C20 that used the Ensign BeV 1" carb, and conversly, can the BeV carb be used on the Cat 10 without any major modification?

The project of making new Ensign carbs has been mooted for years, and it would be a lot easier if just one version of the carb be made, either the BeT or the BeV, unless it is easy to modify the foundry casting patterns to produce both for the purists, also it seems the early tractors had brass carbs, while later tractors got "pot metal" versions, so there is that variability to be considered too, I assume that the Naval Bronze needed for the early carbs is more expensive than a suitable aluminum alloy?

Since losing Bill Campbell, it has become very difficult to source carbs for those smaller Gas Cats, I'd be interested to know how big the market is for these carbs, I know I need 5 of them myself, how many other people need them too, perhaps it could be discussed in the next ACMOC magazine with members asked to provide feedback, because it's time consuming and expensive to create new parts.

In case you are wondering, I'm not involved in the project other than being a possible customer, depending obviously on the retail cost of the new carb, I remember Bill Campbell quoting me $US600- $US800 for a fully rebuilt Bet or Bev, the price difference was depending if it was either pot metal or brass.
ThanksĀ 
Mike

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1 month 1 week ago #229255 by edb
Hi Mike,
a brief look at part numbers of the main bodies and centre insert most parts seem same or have an extra alpha or two added to the end that matches the update extra alpha on the end of the actual Ensign part number for I guess later carbs.

If you have not already done so you can view a lot of the actual carbs you mention and also the updated versions in the book linked below.
From my quick check of mounting flange gasket P/No's they seem to be the same also.
Jet and or venturi sizes may vary with the larger displacement engines.
The parts diagrams show an assembly of the main body with the butterfly and shaft/lever fitted as well as a bare body to confuse things or not.

www.tractorparts.com/PDFs/ACCESSORY_AND_...LOG_1937THRU1944.pdf

Have fun.
Cheers,
Eddie B.
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1 month 1 week ago - 1 month 1 week ago #229259 by Mike Meyer
Thankyou Eddie, that's great info, I assumed there would have been some folks on here who would have done this already, swap carbs between the 10 and 15, but maybe once again I was wrong, I'm used to that! LOL

Both carbs being 1" sidedraft, I was keen to find out if one carb could work on both engines, and so save expensive and time consuming duplication for both Chapter 19 and the Catcave in England, when money is tight for Clubs like ACMOC, it pays to research things a bit as you know, I still bend over and pick up a dollar coin if I see one on the ground, a lot of the younger generation wouldn't bother, as most don't carry cash do they. LOL
All the best
Mike
Last edit: 1 month 1 week ago by Mike Meyer.
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1 month 1 week ago #229263 by Wombat
Hi Mike,
Apart from side draft carby bodies, Chapter 19 is looking at other projects, hot air heaters for THIRTY tractors, high tensile stainless steel water pump shafts for D6100/D6600. THIRTY & SIXTY and maybe others as well as radiator caps etc.

Regards, The Mad Mouth From The South

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1 month 1 week ago - 1 month 1 week ago #229264 by Mike Meyer
Hello Neil, we can never have too many new parts for these old girls, as you know we just need to try and match supply with demand, having parts unsold on the shelf for years ties up a lot of money doesn't it.

Eddie, I was looking at those Ensign carbs in the Accessory Catalog and I see they list not just a BeT and BeV, but a BeTa and a BeVa too, all the parts appear identical except the fuel bowl floats, do you think they might have been for alcohol use?

I looked at the D35 parts book thinking one might have been used on that tractor but they have a BeVc, which probably has something to do with the different carb and throttle linkages for that pilot motor use?
All the best
Mike
Last edit: 1 month 1 week ago by Mike Meyer.

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1 month 1 week ago - 1 month 1 week ago #229298 by edb
Hi Mike,
it would seem you could be onto something with the "a" for Alcohol as the pic of the float P/No 3B609a, in the parts break down of the Be Va carb appears to be a pressed metal doughnut shape as against the P/No 3B609e used in all the other variants--not all variants are in the index in my hard copy book but towards the middle of said book shown on inserted pages are the b, c and d, variants all using I guess the cork float 3B609e.
As we know the alcohol dissolves the old Varnish or Shellac based coating sealants used to seal the cork floats--they then absorb the fuel and sink causing flooding etc. Most current production lower grade Gasoline can have an alcohol percentage added.
The fun continues.
Cheers,
Eddie B.
Last edit: 1 month 1 week ago by edb. Reason: correct the float coating name
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1 month 1 week ago #229303 by Mike Meyer
Thanks for that extra research Eddie, I learn something everyday when I'm working on my old girls!
All the best
Mike

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1 month 1 week ago #229369 by Mike Meyer
I just got busy and compared the part numbers on the BeT and the BeV, those 2 carbs are so so close, I'd love to see the blue prints to compare the internal dimensions, I suspect the fuel and air galleries are slightly larger on the Bev to suit the slightly larger Cat 15 engine.

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1 month 1 week ago #229379 by kittylover123
if the carbs are that close comparing them visually, i would bet it would work fine. Carbs and gasoline work very well together, and have a large window for tuning.

-number ONE mistake most hotrodders make is OVERsized Carb
-number two mistake, overly huge camshaft

Caterpillar D6C 99j

Tax me, I'm Canadian:canada:
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1 month 1 week ago - 1 month 1 week ago #229383 by Mike Meyer
I suspect you are right kittylover, for example the P/N of the main body of the carb on the BeT is 3B601e, on the BeV the P/N is 3B601ev, while the top cover on the BeT is 3B605e, on the BeV it is 3B605ev, and that slight P/N difference might just be for the different Ensign part number tag rivetted on the cover, the cylindrical "Fuel Control" barrel is 3B46e on the BeT, 3B46ev on the BeV

There are 2 part numbers that are not similar between the 2 carbs, the BeT has a 4L68 "L" Bleed screw, while the BeV has a 4L65 "L" Bleed screw, the only other difference is the BeV has 4 lock washers on the top cover, which the BeT does not, all the other parts are identical.

I think the only way to find out would be to bolt a BeT onto a Cat 15 and see what happens, and if possible, get hold of a 4L65 "L" Bleed screw and 4L68 "L" Bleed screw and compare them.
Last edit: 1 month 1 week ago by Mike Meyer.

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