You can contact CAT directly, I've done so a few times, the first time not even having a clue to whom my correspondence was directed to, as it was via e-mail, and was an inquiry about a particular series of tractor, the 4T military D7's, I currently own 2 of them. The response I got was from an archivist, and she sent me a package that I highly appreciated. For the most part, it would probably become an annoyance if a large group of us were to plague the archive and other departments with inquiries like these, so I felt priviliged to get a response and was thankful that my inquiry was even acknowledged.

The 2nd time I made correspondence was initiated when attempting to introduce this organization to Midland Press who formerly provided the Caterpillar Legendary Literature under license from CAT. They did not know of ACMOC at the time, so I forwarded information to them about the organization, in an attempt to be helpful to members and others alike. CAT pulled the program from Midland in March '05 if memory serves me correctly, and I spoke directly with the person handling the program at CAT and forwarded information about ACMOC and ACME, also posted on both BB's so that people knew about this program. I had hoped that a more substantial representative of either organizations would have furthered the process and fostered a relationship with CAT and this literature program, possibly making some connection, discounts or something, I even suggested that CAT take an ad out in the monthy magazine to get the word out, and it seemed well received. I also recall speaking to someone at Midland about other things besides servicemans reference books, parts catalogs and operators instructions, such as old advertisements and the like, they made mention it may have been possible to offer them for sale, wanted to know if members here had an interest, they would be tagged as re-prints, so as not to ruin the value of original items out there. It seemed that some communication may have helped further the process, see if people would purchase these for nostalgic and decorative purposes etc. Was just an idea, but it did not get much press exposure if you know what I mean. However, it's hard to say what is possible without trying, this is just an example. I felt it important to make sure that sources for manuals were known to people here, especially after seeing what poor quality a product Jensales offered for a considerable amount of money, far better to get an original off e-bay or a re-print of decent quality, not photo copies with a spiral binding from a company that would not answer any questions I had about their products. There is a regular demand for manuals, noticing this, I kind of tried to get involved and help a little, I would really have enjoyed being able to help further, I sent the president of the organization at that time, a correspondence, but it fell on deaf ears I think. It seemed that some connection might have been able to have been made there, the people I spoke to were receptive, but like anything without follow up, nothing ever is accomplished. Not much, maybe small relationship with the organization, possibly a discount based on the volume of sales through ACMOC, is what I had imagined possible.

What is suggested about parts, is a tall order to say the least. From their standpoint, even getting someone to listen ought to be interesting to say the least, but if it's presented in a manner that gets someones attention, like the 1000 tractors represented by a chapter, series of events where the manufacturer is highly visible, the overall membership of the club and amount of tractors and equipment represented entirely, you are still fighting against a campaign where new equipment sales is the name of the game.

The machines of the past were certainly some of the finest earthmoving and agricultural equipment made, demonstrated by how many have made it this far, be it a one owner pampered in a shed in the off season, one brought back from sitting in a fence row, or one that has been continually rebuilt and still in service. The engineering that went into developing these tractors is amazing and so is the durability of them, which is complimented by a historical organization comprised of members who have such admiration for these machines, be it work, play, part time work or just shows. It's an amazing thing that was started by some collectors in the northwest years ago, and who would have thought the popularity of restoring these machines would have grown to what it is today. With that said, there would seem to be enough interest to organize an approach to the subject about this potential relationship with the manufacturer.

It's funny, I used to marvel at the fact that when I operated earthmoving equipment as a full time job, how far behind in age the equipment was to the current time. We were running equipment that was 20-30 years old at the time and keeping it running, I used to not only haul machines in/out of the local dealer Foley, in NJ, but used to make parts runs for the the mechanics whenever I was free. The overhead of being in that business is probably the highest of any, but somehow it worked with the right people running the jobs and operating the equipment, some which was older than I at the time !


I'm not sure how one could organize this and determine what the most popular parts would be to consider, we see people looking for things all the time, like D-2 U/C, and so many other series of machines out there. I think people realize that even a tired old cat can still do work, just slower and less efficicient, but that's ok to a weekender, hobbyist, small contractor, be it someone developing a piece of property for personal use, or small scale agriculture work, whatever may be the case, that work they would like to see a new machine doing, so if the parts supporting older ones are readily available, does it hurt new sales ? Seems like it could, but with the cost of new, only contractors and mining companies etc. will be looking at new or late model equipment seriously. So the iron that is out there, slowly becomes obsolete and costly to rebuild or make use of, eliminating the older used iron market to a degree. It's still useful, makes a great hobby, and even some of the worst basket cases have been restored because of collector interest, so one would think the interest is strong. Look at how many dismantlers are still out there, better than the scapman getting them, like some of the hoards of NOS parts that gone to the melting pot. I know I'd never pay a contractor for earthwork, either rent late model and do it myself or own something older in reasonable condition, or even rebuild one if I had to. How many of us are out there that support these because they are still useful, probably quite a few. Then look at all the darned 8K's that have been rebuilt for example, specifically for contractors vs new, I've ran plenty of them myself. I have no idea about the economics here, but even with all the machines in this organization, you are up against a big wheel here.

I'm kind of wondering a bit here, but the bottom line it's going to be a hard sell, some of these parts like large castings or crankshafts for some of the old motors, how can you convince a large company that has discontinued them to re-consider ? Consumable items like U/C parts, well that may be an easier sell, look at all the old D6's - D8's out there still working, considere that between D7 7M's 3T's and 4T's there were just about 50,000 built, there are still a few of those going, there is some substance here. How many of the smaller ones and those from the 20's-30's with more collector interest, such a vast array of parts to consider, it's mind boggling how one or a group would attempt to make an approach to a company focused on current models. Not to mention there are still a lot of valid part numbers out there, suprisingly.


Another thing comes to mind, fabrication drawings. After seeing the machining capability of some of the people here, you would think that if the manufacturer would in no way ever tool up or fabricate obsolete parts, license could be granted to someone with the ability to do so, I am aware that you can already get drawings for individual needs, this is an area to explore. It also seems that none of this would be possible without some hefty expense, like when someone needs something cast, you need a group of people wanting the same part to make it feasible. There are already some reproduction parts being made, could this be expanded in the private sector under licensing ?

A great discussion topic without a doubt, but it would seem a very hard sell, and would take quite an effort just to get recognized, anything is possible, but it sure appears to be one tall order to make progress on, nothing worth doing is ever easy !

You're p*****g into the wind if you think that Cat would even be remotely interested in 1000 old Cat owners. Cat exist as a large corporation, whose aim is .. A. to continuously develop new machines, and sell them in large numbers .. B. take over any other smaller company or corporation that would represent another financial gain for Cat.

Caterpillars only loyalty is to shareholders, directors and senior management .. in that order. Its loyalty to its employees is fairly well down the list .. as evidenced by its workforces numerous and bitter strikes .. and its loyalty to its customers is related to how many millions you spend with them per month .. and even that loyalty is pretty low, if it looks like you might cost them money, as a complaining customer.

Mining companies buy entire FLEETS of 300t and 400t trucks, 100t loaders and excavators, running into single purchases of hundreds of millions in just one deal. Furthermore, that fleet then becomes a cash cow for Cat, as those machines are worked 24/7/365.

The owners of old Cats rarely put more than a few hundred hours a year on their machines .. meaning the total sales $$ value to Cat, of 1000 ACMOC people, in a single year, would be the equivalent of less than supplying parts to one mining dump truck. The number of antique Cats declines daily, as more are parted and scrapped .. so the market potential for supplying items to old Cat owners is low .. and declining annually.

The interest, by Cat, in antique Cat machines, is cursory, to say the least. The only time they are interested, is if they can utilise an antique Cat as a talking point, to garner sales for more new machines.
Otherwise, old Cats are just a curiosity for Cat Inc, and have no part to play in the expansion of a global corporation, that relies on the production of new machinery on a mass production basis, for its ever-increasing profits. Cat profits and sales rose by 15% last year .. and it sure wasn't because they sold lots of parts for antique Cats.

Cat long ago (the mid 1950's) gave up on trying to support antique Cat equipment .. when they quietly shelved the "no orphans" policy that had been touted in earlier years.
The harsh realities of "unnecessary costly inventory", sitting on shelves for years, waiting to be sold to a declining customer base of old equipment owners .. would have been brought home forcefully to directors .. by bean counters who watch every cent, like it's a $100 note.

Not trying to rain on your parade .. just trying to get things into perspective .. that antique Cats are just regarded as a hobby sideline, rated on a par with a child's piggy-bank operation, in the cut-throat world of global corporations, and the mega-$$ involved, in new equipment purchases.

The previous replies proves my point,we need to get ACMOC board to make representations to Caterpillar and maybe,just maybe, someone in higher management may listen.I don't hold much hope but we can only try.No wonder,Komatsu,Volvo and others are making inroads to the plant market in the UK beating Cat on cost and support which I thing is sad.
I will ask again are the ACMOC bod reading this website,also sombody from Cat inc.

Just remembered what happened in 2002 at our local rally.Finning have always supported us at our local rally sending their 2TON Cat dozer.In 2002 we had a letter from Caterpillar who took an interest in our humble little show.They asked us what would we like at the rally,great I thought,what about a brand new dozer to stand alongside our old Cat exhibits.Sprocket even roaded his 631 to the show.John Foster brought an old D6.On the Friday befor the rally, Caterpillar,not Finning said they had got a D6R for the rally.Looking forward to this,I got to the rally field early on the Saturday to see the D6 arrive.Was told it had been delivered and was by the tractor section.Indeed it had arrived a spanking new D6R.The only problem it was in 1/64 scale!!!! LOL

T.C. that actually happened,no joke.I have the D6R on my shelf by my PC alongside my Cat challenger.

Martyn , your heart is in the right place, but "CAT Co" have bigger fish in the net, at the Bauma Plant Show in Germany the other year , I was on the Cat stand with some real big shooters in the money scale ,one chap there spent £26,000,000 on some new toys for his workers to sit in , like he was buying a loaf of bread!!!!!, so I am thinking the only people that will entertain things for old kit is the after market Co's, these small manufacturers have done O.K. for a long time , I think they need keeping on-side making parts that are cost effective also well made for old tractors, if the ACMOC could do a deal with one of these after market Co's things might start to look up for all the D2s needing crank b,rgs for a start, the Club could influence parts to be manufactured also to promote this Co, (Italy is a good place to look for this) the Cat Classic range is a " fancy dream
" Cat do not make half of the stuff, its bought in from the aftermarket Co,
tctractors

Martyn - I admire your drive to get Cat to sit up and take notice of you .. but its pretty much a dream. The D6R story is a classic, and gave me a wry smile.
Tony has nailed it down precisely .. you're far better off to concentrate on aftermarket suppliers for the components that are sought after.
It's a 'niche' market, in marketing terms, but it can be a worthwhile one for small suppliers.

The one and two man shows can often supply the items required, as they don't have the overheads of big operations.

One only has to look at the vintage/classic car restoration/repair industry, to see how the 'nostalgia' industry operates.
It's not Ford or GM that are supplying parts for the older cars .. but a whole industry of aftermarket suppliers of the parts that are needed to restore them and keep them going.

You would be better advised to contact some of these people, and get them interested in supplying parts for antique Cats, as it's only a small step from car parts to crawler parts .. and the crawler owners are used to paying high prices .. thereby making the market for crawler spares a profitable one ..

Martyn, I ain't meaning to rain on your parade but the other posts have all explained it to a tee. The reference to Cat quietly dropping the No orphans policy is proven by the actions of the Cat dealers,McCormick Macnaughton my local dealer at various times clear out the stores of all old parts into a skip to be collected by the scrapman. Theres no way a company with the billions of dollar turnover that Cat has are gonna be influenced by us.
Hells Bells the reps won't even come out to call with a small time operator like me cos I'm only sitting with a coupla track machines and dozers and a few ancient scrapers. Mind you I have not had the Caterpillar injection so they know they have a hard sell ahead-far better to concentrate on the converts and make a few easy sales!!!
As for the support they have given in the past to the club, well they realize there is a certain mileage in that but they will not go any further I feel until they realize how much they are linked to the past. John Bloor when he introduced his new Triumph branded motorcyles in 1991 realized this with the T300 designation which was a carry on from the old Triumph factory which allowed him to maintain a link with the past which he now realizes is a major asset in expanding his business.
Neil

Jack i don't know if this will be any help to you. I have a complet set of 30 under bearings from a cat R2 the 3400 engine. They are used but if very good condition:)
catrat

I would still like a response from ACMOC,nearly 1000 have viewed this thread.
At the same 2002 rally,a major customer of Finning and Cat equipment,Dai Walters was contacted by me to supply a machine for our rally,and promptly sent a large 360 degree Volvo excavator haha.Remember Tony,you were there for that rally.Alot of us have spares tucked away.Perhaps ACMOC could have a data base on spares.I have had people ring up looking for spares,and I have contacted members for spares.What do you think?
See you at Malvern Tony.