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D2/ 22 Tracks

D2/ 22 Tracks

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Mike Meyer
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While on the subject of good photo's of 22's, I would like to suggest Caterpillar Inc. consider doing a run of track components to suit the old D2 and 22. I suggest it because they are almost impossible to source anymore, and there were what, about 65,000 plus machines made that used that size track, there are still a lot out there limping along?
With the Global Financial Crisis eating into new Cat. machine sales, and no doubt company day to day operations, it maybe an excellent time for the Cat. foundry to locate the old molds and do a run of say 2,000 sets of tracks because I'm sure they would be sold within a year around the world if marketed at a fair price.
I'm sure Caterpillar Inc. have plenty of Apprentices/ Trainees in their casting/ foundry Divisions who would love the challenge, and more importantly, gain invaluable skills, if they were guided on this project by Senior staff.
If Father Christmas is real, and I like to believe he is, then maybe even a 200 unit run of 2 Ton tracks would be a nice "stocking stuffer" to find parked at the foot of my bed Christmas morning😄
Mike
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Sat, Dec 19, 2009 3:46 AM
Dan Pratt
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I second that!!!
Dan22 - 1936 22 Narrow, 1937 22 Wide, D2 5J, D4D
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Sat, Dec 19, 2009 4:01 AM
Frank Fox
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You sure don't know how the new corporate bean counters think. If they cant get parts they will have to buy a new tractor! Ha-ha to them.
Frank😊
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Sat, Dec 19, 2009 5:54 AM
OzDozer
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Reply to Frank Fox:
You sure don't know how the new corporate bean counters think. If they cant get parts they will have to buy a new tractor! Ha-ha to them.
Frank😊
Mike - I think you need to have some education in the modus operandi and corporate aims of Cat. Cat exist to develop new and better products, and sell them on a large scale. They sell products of the basis of, "the new model is better/more comfortable/more efficient", than the previous, now-obsolete model.
They are not in the least bit interested in "obsolete models" .. apart from them being historical curiosities.
To them, the production of parts for obsolete models is a retrograde step, not in the interest of the shareholders, nor does it match the corporate aims.

Cat decided, as a major policy change, in 1957, to eliminate the "no orphans" parts stocking policy .. because of the horrendous cost in manufacturing parts, then stocking them, for perhaps many years. "Inventory" is a feared word in the corporate and financial world .. and mention of "excess" inventory will send a companies corporate rating to the floor in days.

Few people understand that manufacturers have to borrow money to produce parts, that are then placed in inventory (bleeding the companies bottom line) .. and they occupy shelf space, in buildings, on land .. that costs more $$$'s. The longer parts take to move off those shelves, the lower the company profits.
The bean counters dream is to be able to carry no parts, and manufacture parts as required, and send them directly to the end-user.
It will never happen of course .. end-users demand reasonable parts inventory .. and we've all whined about Brand X's that stock virtually no parts.
Cat keep the largest parts inventory of all manufacturers, but you pay for it.

Manufacturing parts for obsolete models is a virtually non-existent, and continuously declining market, in their view, not an expanding one.
Obsolete models are owned by hobbyists, and hobbyists don't even rate in the Cat sales spectrum .. particularly when one mining company will lodge an order for $25M or $50M worth of new equipment, just as a regular occurrence, for fleet replacement or mine startup.

There is probably a very small profit margin in some well-heeled individual ordering a sizeable number of track chains from, say, a Korean or Chinese manufacturer .. and then selling them to interested undercarriage dealers to stock .. however, the numbers in the order have to be sizeable before any undercarriage maker would even look at it .. and only about 2% of undercarriage dealers would be interested in stocking them. It would take several years to quit a couple of hundred sets of tracks worldwide, and people can make more money via better investments.
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Sat, Dec 19, 2009 8:21 AM
JasonPayneCrawlers
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Reply to OzDozer:
Mike - I think you need to have some education in the modus operandi and corporate aims of Cat. Cat exist to develop new and better products, and sell them on a large scale. They sell products of the basis of, "the new model is better/more comfortable/more efficient", than the previous, now-obsolete model.
They are not in the least bit interested in "obsolete models" .. apart from them being historical curiosities.
To them, the production of parts for obsolete models is a retrograde step, not in the interest of the shareholders, nor does it match the corporate aims.

Cat decided, as a major policy change, in 1957, to eliminate the "no orphans" parts stocking policy .. because of the horrendous cost in manufacturing parts, then stocking them, for perhaps many years. "Inventory" is a feared word in the corporate and financial world .. and mention of "excess" inventory will send a companies corporate rating to the floor in days.

Few people understand that manufacturers have to borrow money to produce parts, that are then placed in inventory (bleeding the companies bottom line) .. and they occupy shelf space, in buildings, on land .. that costs more $$$'s. The longer parts take to move off those shelves, the lower the company profits.
The bean counters dream is to be able to carry no parts, and manufacture parts as required, and send them directly to the end-user.
It will never happen of course .. end-users demand reasonable parts inventory .. and we've all whined about Brand X's that stock virtually no parts.
Cat keep the largest parts inventory of all manufacturers, but you pay for it.

Manufacturing parts for obsolete models is a virtually non-existent, and continuously declining market, in their view, not an expanding one.
Obsolete models are owned by hobbyists, and hobbyists don't even rate in the Cat sales spectrum .. particularly when one mining company will lodge an order for $25M or $50M worth of new equipment, just as a regular occurrence, for fleet replacement or mine startup.

There is probably a very small profit margin in some well-heeled individual ordering a sizeable number of track chains from, say, a Korean or Chinese manufacturer .. and then selling them to interested undercarriage dealers to stock .. however, the numbers in the order have to be sizeable before any undercarriage maker would even look at it .. and only about 2% of undercarriage dealers would be interested in stocking them. It would take several years to quit a couple of hundred sets of tracks worldwide, and people can make more money via better investments.
Times have changed the people that started Caterpillar are NOT the same people running it now, it's just business😞 that's life
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Sat, Dec 19, 2009 8:52 AM
chriscokid
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Reply to JasonPayneCrawlers:
Times have changed the people that started Caterpillar are NOT the same people running it now, it's just business😞 that's life
Mike,
you could always take it upon youself the build new track chains and sell them? if you keep the cost low you will sell alot of them, and speaking from experiance in manufacturing the more you make the cheaper they will be because you can spread the cost over a larger quanitity. I have done alot of R&D work and first one you make will always be the most expensive.
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Sat, Dec 19, 2009 9:01 AM
naylorbros
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Reply to chriscokid:
Mike,
you could always take it upon youself the build new track chains and sell them? if you keep the cost low you will sell alot of them, and speaking from experiance in manufacturing the more you make the cheaper they will be because you can spread the cost over a larger quanitity. I have done alot of R&D work and first one you make will always be the most expensive.
And please remember that the track links are forged and not cast. There is a much higher cost for forging dies that a pattern.
Thanks
Ken
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Sat, Dec 19, 2009 10:59 AM
Mike Meyer
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Reply to chriscokid:
Mike,
you could always take it upon youself the build new track chains and sell them? if you keep the cost low you will sell alot of them, and speaking from experiance in manufacturing the more you make the cheaper they will be because you can spread the cost over a larger quanitity. I have done alot of R&D work and first one you make will always be the most expensive.
All we need do is convince the Caterpillar Inc. Marketing and Advertising Department that a new ad campaign featuring their antique D2's and 22's being reshod ready for another 10,000 hours work would be money well spent because it would touch thousands of lives around the world and should break even $$$ wise, or even create a little profit, as distinct from maybe taking a handfull of mining bigshots to Vegas or the Masters Golf in a fleet of Citations or Lear Jets filled with hot and cold running gals, and only to discover those same companies broke or filing Chapter 11 on Monday morning🙄
If the Marketing Department don't come on board with the concept, then I suggest we play our Ace card and bring out the big gun, and put the fear of God, and potential litigation on the radar for their Legal Department and point out it is very dangerous allowing their product to be driven with faulty or worn out undercarriages ready to fail at any moment. One lawsuit from a bereft Cat. Collectors widow and the negative National publicity would cost millions, instead of the measly million or so, to produce a thousand new track sets😄 😄 Look at the way Ford and G.M chase their vehicle faults for years.
If that doesn't work I suggest we all buy a single share in Cat Inc. and flood their Annual Stockholder meeting with questions about buying parts for old Cats, that will get the boys in suits attention, having 2,000 questions from the "floor" about tracks for a D2 and 22's😄
Hey Frank Fox, You reckon those Bean Counters at Cat. Inc like King City Pinks, or just plain Ol Faba Beans to count? Me, I'm a King City Pink boy myself, and yes Chriscokid, I hear you, I'm just looking for a Sugar Mommy right now😉 Maybe Paris Hilton might like the idea.
Mike
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Sat, Dec 19, 2009 11:12 AM
Frank Fox
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Reply to Mike Meyer:
All we need do is convince the Caterpillar Inc. Marketing and Advertising Department that a new ad campaign featuring their antique D2's and 22's being reshod ready for another 10,000 hours work would be money well spent because it would touch thousands of lives around the world and should break even $$$ wise, or even create a little profit, as distinct from maybe taking a handfull of mining bigshots to Vegas or the Masters Golf in a fleet of Citations or Lear Jets filled with hot and cold running gals, and only to discover those same companies broke or filing Chapter 11 on Monday morning🙄
If the Marketing Department don't come on board with the concept, then I suggest we play our Ace card and bring out the big gun, and put the fear of God, and potential litigation on the radar for their Legal Department and point out it is very dangerous allowing their product to be driven with faulty or worn out undercarriages ready to fail at any moment. One lawsuit from a bereft Cat. Collectors widow and the negative National publicity would cost millions, instead of the measly million or so, to produce a thousand new track sets😄 😄 Look at the way Ford and G.M chase their vehicle faults for years.
If that doesn't work I suggest we all buy a single share in Cat Inc. and flood their Annual Stockholder meeting with questions about buying parts for old Cats, that will get the boys in suits attention, having 2,000 questions from the "floor" about tracks for a D2 and 22's😄
Hey Frank Fox, You reckon those Bean Counters at Cat. Inc like King City Pinks, or just plain Ol Faba Beans to count? Me, I'm a King City Pink boy myself, and yes Chriscokid, I hear you, I'm just looking for a Sugar Mommy right now😉 Maybe Paris Hilton might like the idea.
Mike
Mike;
It would be wonderful if "CAT" would think if anything except for the bottom line. (CAT aint the only one) Better to have them as they are then not at all. I like most any beans, but think I like my wife's ham shanks and Lima beans best. Especially on a cold day
Frank😄
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Sat, Dec 19, 2009 11:30 AM
Mike Meyer
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Reply to Frank Fox:
Mike;
It would be wonderful if "CAT" would think if anything except for the bottom line. (CAT aint the only one) Better to have them as they are then not at all. I like most any beans, but think I like my wife's ham shanks and Lima beans best. Especially on a cold day
Frank😄
[quote="Frank Fox"]Mike;
It would be wonderful if "CAT" would think if anything except for the bottom line. (CAT aint the only one) Better to have them as they are then not at all. I like most any beans, but think I like my wife's ham shanks and Lima beans best. Especially on a cold day
Frank😄[/quote]
Yes Sir, I'm sure those Lima's and ham shanks are excellent grub on a cold Tullee Fog day, plus I'm sure you are not silly enough to compare them to the lamb shanks over at the Woolgrowers Restuarant in Los Banos are you, be like comparing chalk to cheese.😄
Mike
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Sat, Dec 19, 2009 11:45 AM
STEPHEN
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Reply to Mike Meyer:
[quote="Frank Fox"]Mike;
It would be wonderful if "CAT" would think if anything except for the bottom line. (CAT aint the only one) Better to have them as they are then not at all. I like most any beans, but think I like my wife's ham shanks and Lima beans best. Especially on a cold day
Frank😄[/quote]
Yes Sir, I'm sure those Lima's and ham shanks are excellent grub on a cold Tullee Fog day, plus I'm sure you are not silly enough to compare them to the lamb shanks over at the Woolgrowers Restuarant in Los Banos are you, be like comparing chalk to cheese.😄
Mike
I understand that ACMOC tried many years ago to get some D3 grousers pulled from the line before they were drilled. They could have been drilled to fit the D2 so I've been told. The anwer was no in the end. Forgings can start out as castings. The casting is the easy part,forging, machining and heat treating would cost more than the average user would be willing to pay. I suppose a shell moulded link of steel may be acceptable, and if I had a machining center I would try it.
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Sat, Dec 19, 2009 1:54 PM
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