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Thread: D7 17A Pandora's box continues....

  1. #21
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Gold Coast, Queensland, Australia
    Posts
    4,685

    Default Thank you, edb.

    Hi, edb.
    Thank you for those scans. I may never use or need them but it is still interesting to me to see how it is done.

    Just my 0.02.
    You have a wonderful day. Best wishes.

    Deas Plant.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Corryong Vic Australia
    Posts
    722

    Default

    I sold a D8L with 25,000 hours on final drives and D6HXL with 16,000 hours on final drives, to my knowledge they have both put on many more without a problem. I used Cat recommended oil TO4 50. My secret was to change final drives every 250 hours at the same time as the engine, I believe oil change intervals for transmissions and final drives are far too long and oils break down as well as all the other contaminants that progressively build up in them. Currently still have one of my excavators, 320L with 16,500 hours and never touched a drive apart from changing the oil. I ran engine oil in the flat tracked tractors without problems due to oil, did have to replace intermediate gears from tooth plucking in the D8's due to reversing in 2nd and hitting stumps in very dusty conditions.

    Wombat

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Location
    San Joaquin County, CA
    Posts
    20

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by seiscat View Post
    NickyWalnuts didn't state how soon the 50wt. final failed, if it was quickly and in temps below 90F and in normal operating conditions I would suspect that the fault was improperly pressed assemblies.
    Craig
    We bought 17A 19292 I'm guessing around 12 years ago from a neighbor down the road. He's a wheeler dealer type that buys stuff, runs it for a while, gets tired of it, and sells it off. He bought it from an old farmer in the area maybe 10 miles away. Aside from a basic engine oil and air filter change, I'm pretty sure the gentleman I bought it from did nothing else to it in terms of maintenance for however long he owned it. We assumed everything was good () and did the basic maintenance when we got it as well. I was told a long time ago from a different neighbor not to worry about doing the fuel filters if the fuel pressure gauge runs in the green zone with the engine running. As I learned this April when I started to do a full bumper-to-bumper maintenance on it, that was very bad advice:
    IMG_3646.jpgIMG_3649.jpg

    I still have no idea how it ran so damn good with the pre-filter that clogged up, and the gauge running in the green. I probably never would have checked the pre-filter either, if I hadn't finally got some good advice from someone in the know. I don't think we've put but maybe 250 hours on the machine since owning it. The machine was running fine with no indications that the finals were troubled. This teardown all started with pulling a leaking transmission, and has snowballed and gotten very expensive since. But I have no regrets. I've been learning a ton about these machines, and the inner workings of them, which is really cool to me. Never had one apart myself until now; only just operated them on occasion.

    My dad would never wrench on Caterpillars aside from the basic engine oil / fuel filter / air filter change. He would, however, insist on opening the caps and topping off the finals before using a machine because he heard a story about his uncle burning up one of the finals on our D4-7U by running it low, but it was never indoctrinated in him or me, that the oil in the finals had to be regularly changed . And I have to admit, it never really dawned on me to check for a drain plug on the finals until I got into this machine and by chance recently became acquainted with a local independent Cat wrench that's been around these parts forever who told me all the things that need to be done to properly maintain one of these machines. If something serious ever happened to one of the Cats in the past, dad would usually just send them out to one of the local Cat wrenches. I know his logic exactly: that it's better to let someone that knows something do the work on them. But, I'm a little more fearless to tear things down and fix them on my own, and my dad is fine with it, even though I still catch a hard time from him on occasion asking me if I know how the hell to put it all back together again! Luckily I have the internet and fantastic resources like all of you to ask questions to as well, and I can't thank you all enough for it!!

    We have several other old Caterpillars here on the ranch. None of them get used much, especially since orchard irrigation has all gone to sprinklers. In the old days, a D4 was an absolute must-have for an orchard farmer to pull the ridges up for flood irrigation, and in turn to break them down after the irrigation was complete. I'm 34 years old, and everything has been on sprinklers here since I can remember and almost everything is now done with wheel tractors. Dad only runs the D4-7U orchard seat on special occasions, mostly to disc and run an orchard float after removing a tired old block of walnuts and re-planting a new one. In the past, after the old block of trees were removed, all the ripping to break the ground up and remove roots was hired out to locals that had old D8s or D9s. But we came across the 17A and bought it relatively reasonably at the time, figuring on using it to do the ripping on our own, as needed. Just now realizing it wasn't as reasonable as I once thought .....haha! Oh well....such is life.

    -Nick

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Location
    San Joaquin County, CA
    Posts
    20

    Default Today's progress

    Called in a local independent Cat wrench to help me from here on out and we got to it and split the tracks on the right side this morning. Got the roller frame out from underneath it. Then we got the clutch cover off and disassembled the clutch. The face of the pressure plate appears to have a crack running through it; don't get a photo of it. The gentleman helping me was going to disassemble it a little further at home this evening to see if the crack goes all the way through both sides. Probably safest to just get a replacement one anyways. My parts book shows the two main clutch discs as part number 4H2922. The gent helping me says to check into "Cat Classic" or go aftermarket for the clutch parts. I did notice that General Gear sells that part number as can be seen if you click HERE. I noticed the ones we pulled out of the machine pictured below have slots cut through them, I'm guessing for oil to pass through, however the ones pictured on General Gear's site don't have the slots. It just sparked my curiosity if that's an important feature to have or nothing at all to worry about? I've read lots of good things on here about the quality of General Gear's steering clutch parts (I used them in my steering clutch assemblies waiting to go back in the machine) and I would assume that their main clutch discs would be on par. The steel plate with the teeth on the outside edge has some roughness to it when you run your fingernails across it. I'm researching pricing and availability on a replacement for it as well. Opened up the oil pump from the clutch housing and it looks really good, which is a small win for me considering everything else!

    Tomorrow's plan is to bust open the tracks on the left side and get the roller frame out and hopefully open up at least one of the finals. And pull the flywheel off and send it out to be faced smooth.

    IMG_4042.jpgIMG_4049.jpgIMG_4051.jpgIMG_4052.jpg

    I apologize for the last photo being upside down. On my computer it is right side up, but for some reason once I uploaded it, this site has automatically flipped it upside down and I don't know how to correct it for you guys to see it the right way....

    Hope everyone's having a good week!


    -Nick

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Denair,California
    Posts
    202

    Default

    Right side up
    Attached Images Attached Images

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    yuba city,california
    Posts
    1,195

    Default

    Looks like your sprocket teeth are getting sharp? Do you plan on a new UC in the future? Or this 17A sees light use? One of my favorite tractors to operate. Well balanced and agile. Nicer to run than my D7Es. Glad to see you giving her well deserved care. I used my former 17A to re-develop several blocks of walnuts here as well. Amazed how I could work a full day on only 40 gallons of fuel. Thanks for sharing your progress. JM

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Location
    San Joaquin County, CA
    Posts
    20

    Default Opened the finals up....

    It's been a few very busy days so I haven't had the chance to post until now. This past Friday we got both finals opened up. The only one I took photos of was the left side, which, as evidenced by the amount of metal shavies that came out of the oil, was in fact in very bad shape, with the smaller end of the reduction gear set being the absolute worst. The right side wasn't nearly as bad, but since we have it open, I'm going to just replace it all if we can find good used parts. Buy once, cry once. Besides, I want this thing in good enough shape I won't ever have to worry about it again in my lifetime. Juiceman- good eye. The pins and bushings are pretty well used up. The rail segments have some play to them. We're just going to run them out and have to look for a replacement in the not very distant future......can't empty my wallet all at once!

    reduction.jpgbull_race.jpgbull_gear.jpg

    I also have done quite a bit of running around trying to get my flywheel, pressure plate, and center steel plate surfaced. My local clutch and brake shop in the Stockton area turned me down, saying it was too big for them to handle. I then took it to the biggest clutch and brake outfit in Sacramento, figuring a much bigger city's clutch and brake shop would surely be able to handle bigger stuff........wrong!!.....same story. This afternoon I stopped in with my dad to a very big and old time machine shop in downtown Stockton, open since 1904. I was very impressed with their operation. Very very old brick building. In the one shop bay I walked into on my way to the main office, they had three older manual lathes all in a row with three men manning them, turning parts out. The smell of machining oil in the air and all the sounds that went with it was pretty neat, especially in such a historical building. The manager looked my parts over and was very honest with me and said he could turn my flywheel but the center steel plate would have to be sent out to another shop to be blanch ground, and the pressure plate might need to be as well, and he suggested I first go to the Cat dealer and see if they are set up to do it. So I headed to Holt and they said they would either send it to their Pleasant Grove branch and have them do it, or send it to a completely different local machine shop than I went to, who they send a lot of work to. So I left it with them.

    And so now in the meantime, I will anxiously await the results of the parts search for my finals.....


    -Nick

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    yuba city,california
    Posts
    1,195

    Default Thatís just nuts...

    Wow Nick, sounds like you went to CBXchange AND CCBrake? I was always told that they could do just about anything. Glad you found a place. Iím hearing walnut prices will be north of last years dismal return, so you might as well order up a new set of lifetime chains and rollers ! LOL. Good luck on your project. It will be a very satisfying feeling when completed. JM

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    CA
    Posts
    25

    Default

    Good to see somebody else that is willing to put time and MONEY in to one of these old girls, when you are done you will have one best all around Cat farm tractors ever built , can still compete with the new expensive,electronic stuff out there for pennies on the dollar ,they were a Classic farm tractor!! 17afarmer

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    yuba city,california
    Posts
    1,195

    Default Old school 😎 cool

    I agree with 17A Farmer. One of THE best CATs built. I had a few guys mock me for using old CATs to renovate the former orchards here; I told them I charge the same $ per acre as their 450,000 dollar tractor, not as comfy or cover the same acres per day, but Iím not guzzling 10-15 gallons (or more) of diesel per hour! When Iím finished with the work I donít have to worry about making a note payment either.

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