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R2 clutch

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16 years 11 months ago #8465 by catrat
R2 clutch was created by catrat
edb-SJ-Old Magnet. Hi i was doing some work with my R2 pushed off some piles dirt and a little gradeing. Parked it. few days later started it put clutch in to raise blade. It made a clunk started up then quit.:mad: Put it in gear pulled clutch [clunk] moved about 1 foot tryed again [clunk]another foot then nothing. :confused: Got backhoe pushed it out of thr road. Thought maybe clutch needed adjusted[wrong] nothing. Today i got a flashlight and looked in the adjusting opening and run starter. It appeares ALL the teeth are off thr clutch. This was brand new when i installed the motor a few mounths ago. What do you think could have happened. Bad disk or what realey at a loss. will get ready to pull motor AGAIN:mad:
catrat

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16 years 11 months ago #8469 by Old Magnet
Replied by Old Magnet on topic R2 clutch
Is this the one you had trouble with the clutch installation.........something about having one of the dogs out of place.......can't remember if that was you or someone else;).....anyway, damage to the teeth could have been done at that time if unit was cocked while installing. Can't think of much else that would do that.....assuming the flywheel teeth are clean and in good shape. I suppose a shot pilot bearing or bent clutch shaft could be a contributor but that's pretty extreme. Out of curiosity, who's clutch disc is it?

I will add that individual teeth are kind of fragile and prone to damage during installation but when they are all pulling together they work pretty good.

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16 years 11 months ago #8471 by edb
Replied by edb on topic Failed Clutch Disc Teeth.
Hi catrat,
Sorry to hear about your failure so soon after rebuild. Several things come to mind :- (1) miss alignment (A) caused by crud between the engine/trans mounting faces.
(B) worn flywheel/clutch shaft spigot (pilot) bearings, ditto front trans. bearing supporting the rear of the clutch shaft.
(C) wear steps on the clutch shaft splines and inside the clutch hub missmatched after reassembly-- splines not timed back to their original worn positions-- causing the hub to sit on the shaft eccentrically and/or not parallel to the center line of the clutch shaft, this inturn causes the outer teeth tips to gyrate in and catch on the wear steps in the f/wheel drive splines and stress the disc teeth.
(D) wear steps in the flywheel clutch drive ring teeth causing abnormal twisting loads on the disc teeth also, because no two discs will be exactly the same dimensions of the old unit--especially will fit (pirate) ones-- the tips of the teeth on one side of the disc can fully engage in the wear step and the other side can be on the unworn section of the tooth causing the disc to gyrate about in the f/wheel teeth thereby over loading and fractuing those teeth which are over loaded, ie, not all teeth carry the load evenly. Next time you engage the clutch another set of teeth get overloaded and so on until failure occurs.
(2) Inferior material used in after market (will fit) part.
(3) excessively worn engine main bearings.

Attached is a scan of a SMag. article Nov. 08 1948 for a D2 replacement ring, I assume the R2 is the same clutch here and the ring will suit. If the ring is not available through Cat you can request a drawing of it and have one made if that is part of your problem, or else dress up your teeth until you are satisfied the disc teeth have clearance to work on good even surfaces without stress.
Some of these things are a bit of a long bow but I felt we needed to cover everything I could think of up to now, hopefully others may be able to share their experiences of similar failures or thoughts.
Hope this helps,
Cheers,
Eddie B.

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16 years 11 months ago #8485 by catrat
Replied by catrat on topic R2 Clutch
Old Magnet - edb thanks. Yes i had trouble when i frist set in this engine. The sleeve that runs through the trany to pump did not line up had to pull engine and reset. Engine went in very easy eack time had disk lined up with flywheel and two 1/2 bolts about 6-8in long in each side to guide it. It is some what easy to see doring set in with gas tank off and looked good. Very Pi** at this failure it was a after market disk some one on the list gave me sourse. something farm supply or tractor parts. Will check all mention when i get the engine back out. Don't know how soon that will beitems such as polit bearing clean out teeth all done before could not notice any movement it transmission input shaft. had all the clutch apart and installed new pins and keeeper keys checked surface for high spots or warp all was ok. Just pi** that i spent $100.00 for new disk so i would not have any problems like this. when i pull it if is is magore i will have 4 R2s for sale one that did run and two for parts and that can be put back running. Old tractors are like young wifes to expensive
thank
catrat

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16 years 11 months ago #8489 by Old Magnet
Replied by Old Magnet on topic R2 clutch
Hi catrat,
Could very well have been me that gave you the www.tractorparts.com referral for the clutch disc.....any one else have similar problem with their discs????
Just installed one of theirs in a D4, will be a few more days before I operate it. Will see what happens:rolleyes: :rolleyes: The one it replaces was Cat. ..had lots of wear surface left but had many broken teeth. Really is kind of a mickey mouse set up, especially for a dozer. No wonder Cat finally saw the light and went oil clutch.

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16 years 11 months ago #8542 by catrat
Replied by catrat on topic R2 Clutch
Old Magnet -edb. Thanks for the information i hope to pull the engine this week and have other flywheels will check them out. Magnet the reason i changed the clutch disk was same as yours some teeth missing. There was some one else that sent a post i thing direct but i can;t send back to them. I have all the parts they need. If they want to contac me we can work somethin out.
catrat

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16 years 11 months ago #8547 by 8C 361
Replied by 8C 361 on topic R2 clutch
I did something like this a while back. My 5J D2 clutch failed. It would catch and not catch, but I was able to make it back to the barn. When I pulled it the biscuit was about half size and almost half moon shaped. I never had one fail before. This Cat was a low hour rust bucket I bought from Arthur Bright back in '86. The clutch had been soaking in diesel for years. I am guessing the clutch was stuck at one point and the diesel was put in to free it up. That worked but the diesel took its toll on the biscuit. A dry clutch does not an oil clutch make.

Where I screwed up was I did'nt have the parts book for the 5J. They are very similar so I ordered the disc for a 5U from Cat. The price of parts had jumped up by then and the cost of that disc put me in a financial depression that lasted a good while. We were able to cram it together but it did not go together good. It has always worked but not right, we have to leave it a little loose to get it in gear, then it will slip in a pull.

The bitter pill is when I checked around I had a complete clutch from a parts machine. It was a high hour machine but the disc is in great shape. After an extended teardown (procrastination, long story) the pony is running great on that D2 as well as the rest of the machine except the clutch. That parts disc is going to fly in there one of these days.

Moral: Working on a Cat is as much brain work as back work. If something is not just right think, check, ponder and re-check. It is a lot of trouble to go back into some of these places later.

Tom

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