Hi, Glum.
Thank you, Sir. Yep, that's the jigger. The brace itself is made a fraction short of the full distance between the drawbar full point and the rear face of the bevel gear/steering clutch case so that shims can be inserted between the brace and the ripper rower base to allow for wear so that the full load of ripper pulling is transferred to the drawbar pull point.

Hi, MrsMP.
Now you have me confused, Sir. I am having some little difficulty understanding why a top link on a 3-pt linkage set-up should NOT be parallel to the bottom lift arms or the ground 'cos it reduces traction and causes instability when a parallelogram ripper on a dozer - which is basically a 3-pt linkage with a 2nd top link does have the top and bottom arms parallel and seems to work pretty good, at least in my experience and does not reduce machine stability at all unless the operator jacks the tractor's back end off the ground by excess down pressure.

As the robot, Number 5, in the movie, "Short Circuit" -

- would say. "Input, Input."

Just my 0.02.

Neil and Deas the load is transferred when using 3PL in a direct line to were the top link is pointing so the further the top link points towards the front the less load from the implement is transferred to grip the further to the rear the more load is transferred to grip

It works like hooking onto the draw on a tractor there is a reason why the draw is attached up near the middle of the machine as load is applied it sucks the machine into the ground thus greatly improving grip and efficiency

On wheel tractors they made the clevis on the draw bar adjustable the reason for this is weight transfer the higher the hitch the more load is transferred to the rear wheels and less weight to the front wheels

There was a video on here a fare while ago of a D8 with a whole heap of Landcruisers attached to a bar on the blade and Deas went to great lengths to try and explain how the grip of the D8 was diminished from the way the Landcruisers were attached

I guess at the end of the day it doesnt really matter if we understand this or not it is however the way it works

weight transfer of any 3PL implement is very important to how efficient what ever its attached to works and it also has a effect on stability (this can be greatly amplified on hilly country)

A indication of how important this top link angling if you look at any high draft load implement it has a tall tool post with lots of holes and this is to get the top link on the correct angle when the implement is in the ground at working depth to transfer the correct amount of load at different depths of work

With bigger and more powerful machines a lot of the understanding of this stuff has fallen by the way side

Neil what you say about the top link and load transfer and the lifting the implement out of ground is called draft control not weight transfer and what this does is allows the tractor not to be over loaded and break traction and wheel spin it has nothing to do with weight transfer it is a feature Ferguson came up with to keep a constant load on the tractor to allow more work to be done in a day as the need to adjust the linkage up and down was reduced as this overloading feature did a lot of the work automatically

Paul

Hi Team
the plate Deas was talking about, and shown by Glum, was referred to (if I recall correctly) as a Torque Plate at The Dealer.
It has to be set up with tension applied thru to the draw bar mount under the machine, as Deas explained, or else the rear face of the trans case can be pulled out.
Without the Torque Plate the lower mounting studs on the back face of the transmission case will be the only ones pulling the implement. If the torque plate is not utilised or adjusted incorrectly the rear face of the trans case can be pulled out so destroying the case.
All drawing load has to be applied to the draw bar mount under the machine as it is designed to take these loads. The rear of the trans case is only for mounting the implements/implement adaptor plates onto and not for pulling by.

Much later on with the advent of specially designed and strengthened fabricated cases on larger machines the Torque Plates were able to be done away with.

Cheers,
Eddie B.

Hi, MrsMP.
Please kee-wrecked me if I am wrong but I would have thought that if the front of the top link was attached higher up on the tractor, it would transfer more weight to the front wheels. If it was attached lower down, I would think it would transfer less weight to the front wheels and thus allow more weight transference to the rear drive wheels under load.

Conversely, I would guess that the higher up the rear of the top link was attached to the implement in relation to the bottom lift links, the LESS load it would transfer to the tractor but the more control it would have over the implement, based on the law of the lever.

Just my 0.02. But a kew-ree-yuss mind would like to know.

when a soil engaging implement is used a rotating force is created at its hitch on the 3PL arms as the implement moves through the soil

The tool post (the upright piece on the front of the implement that the top link attaches to) will try and rotate forward and as it moves in a ark viewed side on and applies a force to what ever it comes up against and I guess that force would be equal and opposite to the forward force of the tractor minus losses in the soil and this energy if not used is lost

Now that energy or force is then controlled and transferred thru the top link and depending what angle that top link is at is to were that force is transferred
to steep and the implement would roll over its self and to shallow the energy is been lost into the sky some where ?????

So many many years ago before 3PL was around engineers came up with thru testing what was the correct position to attach the draw bar on a tractor, on a tracked machine they are about half way along the track frame on a wheeled machine they are about a third the way along the wheel base, these are my observations I have never been out and checked with a tape measure

Thats what the top link is trying to replicate but with a mounted implement
So this harnesses the energy thru the top link and creates a down force that is other wise lost

Deas I think you will find you cant have a bent top link its like having a bent drag link on your steering and will create vibrations as it moves around I do stand to be corrected on this so feel free but I know when your driving down the road and if one of the drag links in your steering is bent you can feel this thru the steering wheel

The lower links should be set in a neutral position when working ie level to the ground at working depth not pulling the implement in or out of the soil then the top link should be set to give the desired amount of weight transfer to the tractor and also to were you want it on the tractor

These simple adjustments make a huge difference to how well the tractor rides and how well the implement pulls but for the basics thats about it

Deas in reply to your question you are correct and that also explains why it is so important to have the angles right and not in a parallel plane as you find on most rippers but having said that I think you will find that most modern earth moving machines rely on power and brute strength not the operator adjusting things for different soil types as farmers do

Neil Im sure in old farming magaiznes there would have lots of info once on this as it was critical back then with small tractors so maybe have a hunt around
To plough with 3PL is simple but can be a challenge if you dont know what to change and how to change things to get the desired result and all of this is fast becoming a lost art


Paul

Hi, Folks.
Here are the photos that Keloz forwarded to me of his D5 Torque Plate that he is currently modifying to brace the rippers on his U-series D6 - along with his explanatory notes. Thank you, Keloz.

"that's for a d5 I got it to beef up the rippers on the old 6 just goin to cut a tongue in the plate its 1 inch plate and 1 inch bolts go thru the ripper plate and thread into it "



Hope this helps.

Hi, MrsMP.
I would venture to suggest that you can have a top link with a bend in it 'cos I have seen a couple and the owners/users didn't seem to want to complain about them. As I see it, the important things are the angle of the LINE between the two ends of the link and whether or not the 'bent' link is strong enough to resist the further bending forces that will be applied to it by the implement and the tractor. It's not as if you are going to be doing 110 kmh/70mph around the paddock. I would think though that having the bend down would be more stable than having it up.

Azfer weight transference, I think you will find that having the top link lower on the implement and higher on the tractor will transfer more weight to the tractor's front wheels simply 'cos you are increasing the force from the implement by lessening the leverage there and you are increasing the force at the back of the tractor by increasing the leverage there. This will tend to force the tractor's front wheels down and lessen weight transference to the rear wheels under load - not good.

Conversely, if you have the implement end of the top link high and the tractor end low, you are lessening the force from the implement by increasing the length of that lever and decreasing the force applied to the rear of the tractor by decreasing the leverage at that point - which will mean less weight transference from the implement to the front wheels - which will in turn allow the tractor to transfer more of its weight to the rear wheels under load.

The above 2 paragraphs are basically in agreement with what you posted but are simply my humble attempt to explain the leverages involved and their effects.

Earth moving equipment relying on power and brute strength not the operator adjusting things for different soil types as farmers do???????????????????????????? Is that why they introduced hydraulically variable pitch rippers on dozers back in the 1970s, so that dumb operators could just sit there and do nothing while their rippers struggled inefficiently through whatever ground they happened to be trying to rip? AND wear out ripper boots faster? LOL.

Just my 0.02.

Ok, I really do appreciate the better understanding of the 3 pt hitch. I use my wheeled tractor a lot. The weight transfer makes sense. I never realized how complex it is to properly setup a 3 pt.

I am also convinced that the pull scraper will be my focus after my dozer blade is done. The 3 pt hitch is awesome but to complicated for me now.

I am interested in the torque plate I'm still gonna do the scraper first. I'm not clear on how the rippers mount to the plate. Any pics?

I understand the premiss behind keeping loads on the drawbar mount, but I don't understand how that is accomplished?