What I am suggesting is to separate the two.
There is no reason to drag the core hobby into this mess.
Set up a provision to discuss club business, models included in a seperate forum.

Old Magnet - I guess I just don't understand.

This discussion has been very helpful, informative and rewarding to me. As a Board Member and manager of the Club, I have carried many of these ideas to those Board Members and managers responsible for the appropriate areas.

One of those ideas was the implementation of a technical library where commonly requested information could be stored, maintained and accessed by all. We pursued online discussion and fleshing out of that idea here, to some degree. I had several offline telephone discussions and email exchanges with B4D2 and with several others involved in management of the bulletin board in an attempt to flesh out that idea, developing the concept and figuring out the technical details of how to implement it. This concept was touched upon in the two plus hour telephone discussion you and I had last week. That discussion was very helpful and enjoyable to me, by the way. Those contacts are one of the things I really enjoy about my role in the Club.

Based upon our discussions, both online and offline, we took a first shot at creating the technical library. I don't contend this is the best final form, this is just a starting point from which we will all learn, hopefully we will all contribute and eventually turn this starting point into a strong, fully formed part of the value of the bulletin board. B4D2 has invested, I'm certain, at least several hours in understanding the concept, researching how to technically make it happen and communicating that back to me and others involved in bulletin board operations.

I was pleased by the discussion, feedback, involvement and reaction to the suggestion we had accomplished so far. I am totally non-plussed by your response. I apparently have completely misunderstood what you would like those of us in the leadership to do differently.

I need some clear direction from the entire group about how we are spending our time and what you would like done differently in the management of the Club and its operations. I felt that this discussion and the tangible result of starting a process to build the Technical Library as a collaborative project was a shining example of the positive to come from this type of discussion. Apparently I have completely misunderstood.

Should we instead have just continued to discuss it online until a community design was fully fleshed? Keep in mind that our Club is currently structured with a representative form of governance, meaning that we choose delegates who, on our behalf as members, understand all the details of operations, make decisions and take actions. I don't think we would be capable of operating the bulletin board or the Club as a full democracy, nor do I think most users much care about which version of the software we use or how B4D2 technically accomplished restricting the new area to view only.

I'll be the first to acknowledge that active communication with the members and the bulletin board has been lacking in our past. Every current member of the Board have actively worked to rectify that oversight over the past three years. That work will continue. At this point, though, I think I've done everything I know how to do and I can't seem to satisfy you, or some others. Apparently I need more clear direction.

I'm not going away, unless I lose an election or am removed by the Board. I am, though, frustrated at this point and not entirely sure how to proceed. I appreciate your contributions to the bulletin board and the Club and want to whatever is necessary to make you feel welcome and facilitate your continued involvement as a resource to all users. I want to do better, and thought I was, but I guess I need a redirection.

I'm standing by,

Pete.

What is becoming more clear is that there is no real management of the club. It appears there is no business plan or direction of how to accomplish objectives. The idea of communication is to get reciprocal response, not just from individuals but from the membership at large and any other resources. Just clumping a group of individual club representatives together without course or direction is not management.

What's even more apparent is this organization needs instruction on how to manage. I don't know if there are any management consultants in the wings but this organization needs help if anyone would care to offer services. This field is way out of my league but I have sure seen my share of good and bad management and the toll it takes on its contributors. I am reading here that people just don't know how to manage, have never been trained and I certainly don't want to berate their situation.

There is however one exception. As I understand it, Bruce is a project manager. I know for a fact they are trained in the skills of communications, proposals, resource aquisition, project organization, implementation, startup, handoff and closure. I'm at somewhat at a loss as to why these skills have not been shared among the board.

As far as the "Technical Library" goes that is a great idea and long overdue, now proceed with the proper methods of management to put it together. I had no idea that our discussion was a conscriptment.

To my suggestion to split the forum: it is quite evident that there are two trains running here. The dependency on model sales to support the clubs objectives, not neccessarily shared by the equipment owners, and the objectives of the core hobby of keeping the real equipment restored and operational. I believe a seperate funding, a prorated membership, and just plain contributions can support the equipment related BB.

Deas - You asked the question about the inventory of models. I keep these figures on a monthly basis, so our onhand at August 31, 2013 is provided below. Your question related to which were the best sellers, so I've also included the original order quantity, year introduced and retail price.

R2 - 435 units - 1,250 units - 2009 - $159.00.
D9E with CCU - 388 units - 2,500 units - 2006 - $249.00.
491 scraper - 728 units - 2,500 units - 2007 - $199.00.
D9E with blade - 1,248 units - 2,500 units - 2008 - $219.00.
DW20 - 210 units - 1,260 units - 2010 - $169.00.
456 scraper - 378 units - 1,260 units - 2011 - $199.00.
Gray #1 terracer - 196 units - 500 units - 2012 - $99.00.
Yellow #1 terracer - 537 units - 1,000 units - 2012 - $99.00.
Yellow #1 terracer with black wheels - 970 units - 1,000 units - 2013 - $99.00.
Yellow #4 grader - 190 units - 1,000 units - 2012 - $99.00.
Yellow #4 grader with black wheels - 1,439 units - 1,500 units - 2013 - $99.00.

It is apparent from the above that dctex99's read of the market is pretty correct. The higher dollar models didn't sell as well as those priced less than about $120.00. Notice that we did scale back our manufactured quantities in 2009 after the economy declined. The R2 was already in development in 2008. After 2008 we did pull the trigger on the DW20 in 2009 and the 456 scraper in 2010, which were both high retail price models and I guess we could have made a different decision there. In 2010 and early 2011 we struggled with what to do for the next model, ultimately deciding to go with the grader and terracer project, which created a product to complement some of our other unsold inventory, was much lower cost for more units and kept the retail price at a much more reasonable level.

The graders and terracers have sold pretty well, although I think we can stimulate them a bit more. The R2 and the other expensive models will take some doing to clear out of the inventory, or we will just have to wait for the passage of time. They are all selling, the big ones just sell at a painfully low rate right now.

We don't have the convenience of offering a sale to move stock, several here have pointed out that our collector and dealer customers would not be happy with us undercutting their resale market. There are other alternatives to move inventory and liquidate stock. We are actively working those other alternatives.

Pete.

Nice to see the Technical Library box appear on the screen, like OM I was surprised there were no specific areas to store the info but I'm sure B4D2 will soon get that squared away, obviously Tech Sheets and info generously uploaded by "edb" and "Old Magnet" and others can be stored in several different "Files" or "Folders" such as by tractor Model Number, 10, 15, 20, D2, RD4, Diesel 35 etc, and also by specific topic, for example one of the most commonly asked questions on the Forum, "My pilot motor wont start", OK, if it is the D2/D4 pilot motor being discussed then that info will be found in both the D2 and D4 Tractor Model File, plus, in another File called "Pilot Motors".

If it is a question about "My D2 wont steer", then the info will be found in the File called "Steering Issues", plus, in the Tractor Model File under "D2", I know nothing about computers at all, but I assume it would not be hard to set up these files or folders, Erik's Chapter have information stored for each tractor model we can all access already, and I agree that both "edb" and "Old Magnet" should be given the key to that Technical Library to enable them to upload their Tech Sheets, and help collate and store any Tech Sheets or info kindly uploaded by other members. I know they are both busy guys but we have been discussing this Technical Library for a looooooooong time now, and I wasn't the only one worried I'd die of old age before it got introduced. The critical thing is the Search function must work well, but if "edb" and "Old Magnet" are ruthless about what info get's stored, and where, then it hopefully shouldn't get overwhelmed.

I also discussed the Special Discount Program for ACMOC Financial Members several years ago here on the Forum, I remember John Gaunt outlining the successful running of the program in the U.K. I believe through "Finnings", the U.K. Cat Inc Dealer. That wheel has already been invented, tested and run, I see no point busy folks setting up yet another Committee in the USA to discuss how it might work and reinventing another wheel, ask your former Chapter 2 Members in England for help. It would be easy for Cat Dealers around the world to be notified by Cat Inc or ACMOC, about a persons ACMOC Membership status, and whether they qualify for the parts discount program, and that be stored on their Customer File, my only suggestion is that a monthly limit be placed on parts purchases to say $2,000 a month, that way the person running a fleet of D10's or 11's can't abuse the concept buying parts for modern machines.

Regards
Mike

Mike,

The advantage chapter 2 had was working with one dealer, if you want ACMOC to make this avaliable to all members then we will need to get that throught Cat inc. that way no matter which dealer is used the discount will work.
This is a great idea and i would love to see it become real. Now we will need to work on some agreement with Cat to make it all work out.

Old Magnet - Can you please send me a copy of the letter you sent George? George's attorney has sent us many of his documents related to ACMOC, but I didn't find the letter among them. I believe there is more to come from George's estate, but if you could easily send me a copy, it would give me some guidance about organizing that information.

I, or my staff, maintain a law library, libraries of the Federal and several state tax codes, a library of pertinent labor code sections and regulations for those states, a couple of libraries of sales tax codes, a couple of libraries of generally accepted accounting principles, so I know generally how to organize information. I don't, however, have any experience maintaining repair and maintenance information, such as you and edb have. It would be really helpful to learn from your experience and organize this stuff close to the right way from the get-go.

Of course, the best of all would be this as a starting point, then collaboration and assistance from the two of you and everyone else as we go along.

Pete.

No, I will not do that but in keeping the open dialogue format, here is what I sent. Does edb know anything about being conscripted?

This was not in letter form. It was an email sent direct to GWH. At the time, no serious consideration was given to the BB not alone the archives.

Outlines (4/10/06)

Hi GWH,
As you know, or will soon find out, it is a pretty monumental task to organize all the material related to the Caterpillar hobby into an archive format and to be able to sustain it.
In that light I offer the following suggestions:

As soon as possible it would be best to solicit volunteers to act as “advisors” to handle the various logical sections of the hobby. Eg. Gas cats, diesel cats, earth moving equipment, motor graders, attachments, etc…
This seems to work very well in the automotive collector hobby and distributes the work among a number of participants. I’m thinking maybe six to ten categories here.

On the topic of archiving information I have done a fair amount of thinking and organizing of my own material in preparation for such a need, either club based or personal.

I believe the bulk of the archive material can be accumulated into eight categories of which I have attached example file outlines.

Let me know what you think.
OM

Section No. 1 - Purchasing & Owning an Old Tractor
Contents
1. Introduction
2. The “Walk Around”
3. Assessment
a. Undercarriage
b. Engines
c. Main Clutch
d. Transmission
e. Steering Clutches & Brakes
f. Finals
4. Value
5. Research
6. Identification
a. Tag Locations
b. Model, Serial Numbers and year/s of production
1.) Crawler Tractors
2.) Motor Graders
3.) Stationary Engines
7. Specifications
1.) Crawler Tractors
2.) Motor Graders

Section No. 2 - Reviving a “Resting” Unit
Contents
1. Where to start
2. What to check
3. Assessing condition
4. Undercarriage
5. Main Engines
6. Pony Engine
7. Cooling System
8. Fuel System
9. Transmission
10. Main Engine Clutches
a. Dry
b. Wet (Oil)
11. Steering Clutches
12. Brakes
13. Bevel Gear & Pinion
14. Finals

Section No. 3 - Maintenance
Contents
1. Cooling System
2. Lubrication
a. Track Rollers (Grease Type)
b. Track Rollers (Lifetime Lubrication Type)
c. Main Engine
d. Pony Engine
e. Clutch (Oil Type)
f. Clutch (Dry Type)
g. Transmission
h. Bevel Gear & Pinion
i. Finals
3. Water/condensation removal.
4. Adjustments:
a. Engine
b. Main Clutch
c. Steering Clutch
d. Pony Clutch
e. Brakes
f. Tracks
5. Compartment Washing

Section No. 4 - Service & Operation
Contents
1. Bleeding the Fuel System
a. Fuel Filters
2. Starting the Engine
3. Timing
4. Injection Pumps
5. Rack Settings
6. Governors
7. Pony Motors
a. Engine
b. Governor
c. Carburetor
d. Magneto
8. Steering Clutch Boosters
9. Main Engine Clutch Replacement
10. Steering Clutch Replacement
11. Brake Replacement
12. Setting Bevel Gear and Pinion Mesh
13. Transmission
14. Finals
15. Undercarriage

Section No. 5 - Restoration
Contents
1. Surface Preparation
a. Dry blasting
b. Wet Blasting
c. Chemical
d. Cleaning
2. Prep for Painting
3. Primers
4. Additives
5. Finish Coat
6. Upholstery
7. Assembly
8. Fuel Tank Rust Removal and Sealing

Section No. 6 - Attachments
Contents
1. Power Take Offs
2. Winches
3. Three-Point Hitches
4. Dozers
5. Hydraulics
6. Generators
7. Starters
8. Cages & Canopies
9. Pony Electric Starters
10. Gauges
11. BeGe Pumps

Section No. 7 - Trouble Shooting
Contents
1. Pony Motors
2. Fuel Injection
3. Magneto’s
4. Carburetors
5. Slobbering
6. Smoke
7. Cooling System
8. Fuel system
9. Steering
10. Braking
11. Clutch Slippage
12. Mysterious Sounds

Section No. 8 - Sources
Contents
1. Bushings
2. Bearings
3. Seals
4. Filters
5. Gaskets
6. Generators/Alternators/Starters
7. Magneto’s
8. Ground Engaging Tools
9. Hardware
10. Hydraulics
11. Metal Fabrication
12. Engine Parts
13. Pony Motor
14. Prelube
15. Block Heaters
16. Manuals
17. Salvage Yards
18. Undercarraige
19. Upholstery
20. Paint
21. Winch
22. Fuel Injection
23. Part Numbers and Interchanges

"chriscokid" wrote:

Mike,

The advantage chapter 2 had was working with one dealer, if you want ACMOC to make this avaliable to all members then we will need to get that throught Cat inc. that way no matter which dealer is used the discount will work.
This is a great idea and i would love to see it become real. Now we will need to work on some agreement with Cat to make it all work out.

With 3,000 Financial ACMOC Members and 14,000 Forum Members, many owning and running Cat Inc gear around the world 24/7 worth billions of dollars, I think we might need to re-clarify our Clubs relevance and market influence to Cat Inc because I suspect in the past ACMOC was seen by Cat Inc as a few nice older folks saving a few old Cats in their spare time, and when I read of Cat Incs heavy handed attitude to our minuscule marketing projects like being prevented from putting a John Deere toy together with a Cat toy in a toy magazine advertisement I just shake my head in disbelief.

I know of one ACMOC Member here in Australia who is on this Forum looking most every day, yet to my knowledge has never once said a word, he calls me regularly to discuss antique Cat issues so I know he is real, who just bought Cats entire world wide stock of a particular Cat stationary engine he uses in the underground coal mining industry, I think it was in excess of 30 engines, he would have bought more if they had them, he also has a team of full time Mechanics working for him in the USA saving and restoring antique Cats and Holts, so he is a big hitter in more ways than one.

I think he might be one of us who would fully support my suggestion of the discount project, and he is just one of hundreds of ACMOC Members following this thread who I'm sure would be happy to sign a petition to be sent to Cat Inc USA if the BOD felt it necessary, asking for a better deal, because I know the economy for new Cat machines is in the toilet right now here in Australia and it would be a very foolish Cat dealer who encouraged a major customer, or group of major customers, as ACMOC is, to walk out the door and take their main core business elsewhere.
regards
Mike

I see "edb" has been following this thread but I've tried phoning him twice at home the past 2 weeks and I get his answering machine immediately, and "Wombat" told me last night that "edb" has been in the Veterans Affairs Hospital recently to have previous surgical proceedures redone, so once we get him off the life support machines I'm assuming he will be good to go and help you and the 14,000 other Forum users put that Library together, perhaps ACMOC could buy him a round trip plane ticket to Monterey Ca. so you 2 boys can work face to face, that should save us a few years on the project run out.
Regards
Donkeyhead