Old Magnet - Thanks for posting that. It is very helpful to look over the shoulder of someone who has already created a system of organizing volumes of information, then used it and worked out most of the bugs.

As usually happens to me in these situations, your approach is very different than what I expected and, I suspect, better. I believe we can create these categories and subcategories within that Technical Library section, then begin to populate those areas with threads containing the scanned documents and any pertinent discussion, explanation and reminders when we put that main section back up.

I did not mean to conscript you into maintaining this section, I merely misinterpreted your previous comments as an offer to help. As long as I can received guidance and feedback from the major users and suppliers of the information, you, edb, and others, I'm pleased to do the work of creating and maintaining this section. I also thought that you might have a preference to directly control and make modifications, rather than having to work through scribes such as me, B4D2 and Chriscokid.

Like the operations of the Club, everything here is done on a volunteer basis and I certainly have no right or desire to conscript or compel performance by any other participant here.

I'll get to work learning how to create and modify the new and improved Technical Library section, with the categories and subcategories you have suggested, and try to get it back up here as soon as possible so that we can begin populating it with valuable information.

Pete.

Nothing sacred about that format.
It should be reviewed and considered as a place to start. It's been a long time since I even looked at it but the general outline has worked for me.

Where it gets messy is applying the outline to all the various models and years, but without it there would just be a jumble of information.

Going to amount to a lot of folders and files.
Haven't seen "Swishy" around much lately but he was very helpful in putting my starter stuff together, especially after imageshack crashed its server. Might be a resource.

The idea of a discount a Cat would be great as I attempt to us my old Cats in a farming operation that makes money. I belong to a national farm organization that has a program for a discount at national auto parts chain if you have a account you show your membership card and it is entered in the computer billing system takes over and the price is adjusted.Would get a little time consuming if you don't have a account with the dealer and have to show your card and the discount is figured at the counter as you pick you parts up and pay.I believe it is up to the dealer if they participate in the program. So it is rather complex from many points.
Maybe a program easier for Cat would be if they would donate a small fraction of a percent of parts sales from the old parts to the club.With information on how to install new parts from the club archive more parts would be sold.Less parts discontinued if more are sold.Club not depending on toy sales to keep a technical archive alive on the internet.A win for both parties.
Ray

Good one Ray!!

"Mike wrote:

"Wombat" told me last night that "edb" has been in the Veterans Affairs Hospital recently to have previous surgical proceedures redone

Mike. Knowing you have a sense of humor, I trust Eddie's surgery is not life threatening. Eddie, if you're listening, we're keeping you in our thoughts and prayers and hoping for your speedy recovery.

Still haven't seen any dialogue on the proposed upgrade, and I don't mean who's program. Talking about features, usage and user friendly applications orientated to our hobby use.

Hope this isn't going to be another no interaction, jamb it down the members throat scenario.

Somebody needs to start talking.

Hey OM-

One not infrequently used camping tradition required that the person who complained about tonight's meal had to cook tomorrow nights!

Just food for consideration.

Daron

A lot has been said since my last comment. I want to touch on some of the issues raised as time now permits. I believe the Directors need to step back and read the comments posted under Budget and Elections and ask yourselves, are we running a Club that promotes the restoration of old Cats or are we running a model business to serve Caterpillar, Inc. From what I read, this Club is more about the models than it is about all other activities combined. My advice is “Move on.” Models took this Club down and it’s time for a serious course correction.

Here’s something else that folks ought to be thinking about. ACMOC IS NOW RUNNING A SALVAGE OPERATION. The Club is swirling the drain and if any of you are interested in making a course correction, now is the time. It’s going to be up to you directors as individuals to get this done, not as a collective. In collective form you’ve not been able to overcome the pull of the drain.

Garlic Pete. You probably saved the Club when the 2004 return was audited but I’ve been paying close attention to BB communication since 2007 and I know that if I were an E.O. auditor, I would reclassify many of the expenses booked to UBI and would disallow their use against income. That being said, lets assume I’m wrong and all the expenses attributed to UBI are spot on. This places the Club in the position of focusing almost all of its revenue and energy on the marketing and sale of models WHICH DO NOT RETURN A PROFIT FOR THE CLUB. The Club cannot have it both ways. Either the expenses are attributable to the production of model income or they are not. If the Club is incurring expenses unrelated to the production of model income and classifying them as model expenses, you boys are in a heap of trouble.

The following is a cut and paste of postings in this tread. I hope I have not taken any of these comments out of context.

<span style="font-family:Franklin Gothic Medium">We do have the ear of Caterpillar, Inc., though. This connection and our influence has continued to grow in recent years. The time and effort expended in this area is large, and is part of the reason you don't see as much participation by some of the other Board Members here. Maintenance of that relationship, extending our influence with Caterpillar, Inc. and convincing them of the value of our organization to them take a lot of time. Movement in that relationship and realization of those benefits requires a lot of effort over time, but that work has paid dividends already and I don't doubt will continue to do so for us.
Garlic Pete. </span>

<span style="font-family:Franklin Gothic Medium">ACMOC is working very hard to assist Cat in anyway possible when it comes to antique caterpillars. For instance: supplying machines for the Caterpillar visitors center, locating and placing a machine for the Caterpillar ball park, finding a machine to be placed in the cooperate hanger, supplying machines for Caterpillar events. We hope that in time, and I believe we are there, that Caterpillar realizes just how important the work is that ACMOC is doing and that both organizations can benefit from one another. Chriscokid. </span>

Acmoc is not the Caterpillar, Inc. fan club. It was not formed to serve Caterpillar, Inc. and from what I have seen and heard does not profit or prosper from such a relationship. It doesn’t sound like you directors have had enough interaction with Caterpillar or its dealer network to understand what’s valuable to them. I’ll put it this way. Acmoc is not worth a dime to Caterpillar or its dealer network. It never has been and never will be. Sure, you can keep delivering the bulk of Acmoc’s assets to Caterpillar and it will keep taking them, but you’re not going to be getting much more than a tour of the plant in return. Acmoc did have value to at least one Caterpillar employee who used it to further his bio but that’s about it. Prove me wrong. Ask Caterpillar to write Acmoc a check and subsidize your operations. It’s just that simple. If Acmoc has value, Caterpillar will pay for that value. As for the Directors spending their time convincing Caterpillar of Acmoc’s worth, Caterpillar is a multi billion dollar company. They don’t need any help figuring out what’s valuable to their organization.


I’ve been hearing a lot of comments like this.


<span style="font-family:Franklin Gothic Medium">This type of open discussion is the best solution ... for the membership to assist the leaders by bringing out good ideas, as has been done here. Garlic Pete</span>

<span style="font-family:Franklin Gothic Medium">There is a LOT of 'back-seat driving' going on here and I think it needs to stop and the people who are trying to drive from the back seat need to be told to get in the FRONT seat and do better - - - - - or at least get in there and help the current 'drivers' do their job. Deas</span>

Don’t take this personal. There is a problem with doing things this way and it is this. The “leaders” have been utilizing this approach for some time and it hasn’t solved the problem. The guys pitching the ideas have been around the block a few times and are tired of hearing “you supply the ideas and we’ll decide what to do.” If the “leaders” were capable of figuring out what to do, they’d have done so already. It’s time for the leaders to start taking orders instead of giving them. OM has it right. The issues need to be resolved right here in open format so the members know what you’re doing. That may not be the way you like it or the way you’re used to doing things but you’re on a sinking ship. I know some of you don’t want to scuttle the ship. If you want help, you’re not going to get it behind closed doors. Repeating that concept constitutes an act of futility and isn’t going to gain any traction here.


TWO ACMOC-s is an idea whose time has come. Split it up into Profit and Not For Profit.

<span style="font-family:Franklin Gothic Medium">I guess we need a new sub-forum for "ACMOC plans and ideas". Christcokid
</span>
<span style="font-family:Franklin Gothic Medium">What I am suggesting is to separate the two. There is no reason to drag the core hobby into this mess. Set up a provision to discuss club business, models included in a separate forum. Old Magnet</span>

Acmoc clearly runs two different operations, the hobby club and the model business. Split the two up. They’ve been combined for far too long and have blurred the core mission and vision of this Club. Acmoc was not formed to sell models. That happened after a Caterpillar employee poached the Club and moved it East. It’s time to return Acmoc to its old format before the move to Peoria. Those Directors who are horrified by this thought should welcome a split. They will be able to focus their time on a for profit model business and its service to Caterpillar, Inc. If they can make a buck in the model business, good for them. If they believe the not for profit Club is worthy of a donation, I am sure it would be much appreciated.


Terry, thanks for listening. I mean that sincerely. I am surprised to hear Chapter 4 didn’t get any help on the BB. I think that can be rectified from what I’ve seen these past six years.

<span style="font-family:Franklin Gothic Medium">Yesterday I was at the Chapter 4 meeting ... . Most no longer use the BB as they have gotten very little out of it. They have asked for advice but not gotten anything.

I also resigned as the chapter News letter for the National News Letter Person as You made it clear you do not want to read about Chapter 4's steak cook out and I have been doing it for five years. Terry Welch</span>

Maybe you’re still the guy for the job as you’re not so entrenched in the ways of the past that you’re unwilling to change.


A lot of folks are interested in an ACMOC discount. I don’t think that will ever happen for a lot of reasons.

<span style="font-family:Franklin Gothic Medium">Mike, the advantage chapter 2 had was working with one dealer, if you want ACMOC to make this avaliable to all members then we will need to get that throught Cat inc. that way no matter which dealer is used the discount will work. This is a great idea and i would love to see it become real. Now we will need to work on some agreement with Cat to make it all work out. Christcokid
</span>
1. It would be easier for Caterpillar to just write Acmoc a check. Keeping track of something like this would be a nightmare.
2. Caterpillar historically does not give discounts. They don’t have to. Discounts also diminish their brand. That doesn’t mean the dealers don’t do this for their best customers. If Acmoc opens a mine and burns through $10,000,000 or so in parts on an annual basis, most dealers would build a shop and parts department on site just to service the mine.
3. Where does the discount stop. What’s the contractor who buys $100K worth of parts going to say. Acmoc gets a discount but I don’t. Oh, that’s right, he can join Acmoc and get the same discount. How long is it going to take Caterpillar to figure out they could sell a Cat Club membership for $5,000 instead of the $41 Acmoc charges for membership. Even if the Acmoc discount was limited to parts purchased for machines discontinued prior to 19xx, Caterpillar is going to be giving up substantially more than the price of new memberships. It would be cheaper for them to write a check.

The idea that Acmoc and Caterpillar should be giving and taking from each other and that this will morph into something beneficial to Acmoc is a waste of time and money. If Caterpillar does something for Acmoc, pay them. If Acmoc does something for Caterpillar, charge them. Both parties will be better off in the long run. If this means Acmoc the non profit has to give up the use of the word Caterpillar in their name, so be it. It’s not the end of the world.

tw,
I've had your comment in the back of my mind about resigning from posting the chapter news. If it's due to that sole comment I'd say that was a bit hasty and not a consenses. The Chapters need to describe what they are doing as a communication. Nothing wrong with that. If the number of reports get to unwieldy then maybe the reports can be a little less frequent, say rotated to where each is covered say once or twice per year.

&quot;daron&quot; wrote:

Hey OM-

One not infrequently used camping tradition required that the person who complained about tonight's meal had to cook tomorrow nights!

Just food for consideration.

Daron

So what's for dinner!!!!