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Stuck In Hawaii D9G Still Wont start!!! Bad Injection Pump????

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2 years 1 day ago #207341 by Old Magnet
Yes, I saw the latest video. Nothing new there, need more trouble shooting.
Leak down testing is not in the service manual Injection pump timing check is.
Here's the procedure for leak down testing...
avsmanual.com/i.caterpillar/gmg006940001/

You need to do more troubles shooting/checking before taking anything else apart.

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2 years 1 day ago #207343 by Rome K/G
What did you torque the new injector nozzle capsules to when you installed them? or did you just tighten them down?

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2 years 1 day ago #207348 by gvanhouten

What did you torque the new injector nozzle capsules to when you installed them? or did you just tighten them down?


105 ft/pounds

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2 years 23 hours ago #207357 by Rome K/G
Ok, that checks out, was the turbo replaced? Is it turning or free?

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2 years 23 hours ago #207358 by catskinner
Replied by catskinner on topic D9G fuel problem
Your serial # checks out to be a late 1969, 8117 is end of 1969. catskinner

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2 years 23 hours ago #207360 by gvanhouten

Ok, that checks out, was the turbo replaced? Is it turning or free?

. Not sure, would that stop it from firing and or starting????

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2 years 22 hours ago #207361 by edb
Hi Team,
as we have no past history on this engine--other than lots of dirt on the engine and me thinking way outside the box here--- BUT, I have come across a few client overhauled D330/D333 engines that were timed 180 out and they exhibited similar hard starting symptoms to this one.
They needed to be heated beyond belief and eventually fired and ran very rattly on the injected residual fuel in the cylinder until enough heat allowed them to run poorly. These D330 family engines needed the engine specific timing fixture to time the Inj. pump--D353 is different.

I have no literature for the D353 BUT, From Memory these engines, as well as the offset tang drive, have a coupling connecting the accessory drive shafts from the rear timing gear train.

In the past I have encountered such style couplings, in other applications, they were found assembled with the drive key in the bolt clamp split and not the provided keyway--I also feel that the drive shafts have grooves cut in the shafts to allow the bolts to be fitted with the coupling only in the correct position and obviously this safety feature would preclude miss-timing happening, BUT stranger things have happened.

I also agree that failed injection pump cam bearings, lifter rollers and or cam lobe face in the high load lift area will retard the timing making starting difficult.

Just came to mind that D8K's had a support ring shrunk onto the cam end to help stop the drive loads from fracturing one of the the slot edges and so cause retarded timing too.
With the shrink ring in place it can be difficult to spot if the slot edge is broken as it is held in place by a lip on the face of the ring.

Well worn drive tang and/or slot will retard timing. This is where Lifter setting on the engine takes out the wear factors.

Sorry hope, to not confuse things more---Just thinking aloud.

Am out again tomorrow so just throwing some ideas before it is too late and the pump is refitted and these things not checked.

Cheers,
Eddie B.

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2 years 21 hours ago #207363 by Old Magnet

Your serial # checks out to be a late 1969, 8117 is end of 1969. catskinner


All three of my reference sources says it's a 1970 model.
What are you using as a source?

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2 years 21 hours ago #207364 by Old Magnet

Hi Team,
as we have no past history on this engine--other than lots of dirt on the engine and me thinking way outside the box here--- BUT, I have come across a few client overhauled D330/D333 engines that were timed 180 out and they exhibited similar hard starting symptoms to this one.
They needed to be heated beyond belief and eventually fired and ran very rattly on the injected residual fuel in the cylinder until enough heat allowed them to run poorly. These D330 family engines needed the engine specific timing fixture to time the Inj. pump--D353 is different.

I have no literature for the D353 BUT, From Memory these engines, as well as the offset tang drive, have a coupling connecting the accessory drive shafts from the rear timing gear train.

In the past I have encountered such style couplings, in other applications, they were found assembled with the drive key in the bolt clamp split and not the provided keyway--I also feel that the drive shafts have grooves cut in the shafts to allow the bolts to be fitted with the coupling only in the correct position and obviously this safety feature would preclude miss-timing happening, BUT stranger things have happened.

I also agree that failed injection pump cam bearings, lifter rollers and or cam lobe face in the high load lift area will retard the timing making starting difficult.

Just came to mind that D8K's had a support ring shrunk onto the cam end to help stop the drive loads from fracturing one of the the slot edges and so cause retarded timing too.
With the shrink ring in place it can be difficult to spot if the slot edge is broken as it is held in place by a lip on the face of the ring.

Well worn drive tang and/or slot will retard timing. This is where Lifter setting on the engine takes out the wear factors.

Sorry hope, to not confuse things more---Just thinking aloud.

Am out again tomorrow so just throwing some ideas before it is too late and the pump is refitted and these things not checked.

Cheers,
Eddie B.


To much information, the timing is set by inserting/aligning a dowel through the provided hole in the housing and a slot in the injection pump shaft flange. Clamp loosened and #1 @ TDC.

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2 years 21 hours ago #207365 by gvanhouten

Hi Team,
as we have no past history on this engine--other than lots of dirt on the engine and me thinking way outside the box here--- BUT, I have come across a few client overhauled D330/D333 engines that were timed 180 out and they exhibited similar hard starting symptoms to this one.
They needed to be heated beyond belief and eventually fired and ran very rattly on the injected residual fuel in the cylinder until enough heat allowed them to run poorly. These D330 family engines needed the engine specific timing fixture to time the Inj. pump--D353 is different.

I have no literature for the D353 BUT, From Memory these engines, as well as the offset tang drive, have a coupling connecting the accessory drive shafts from the rear timing gear train.

In the past I have encountered such style couplings, in other applications, they were found assembled with the drive key in the bolt clamp split and not the provided keyway--I also feel that the drive shafts have grooves cut in the shafts to allow the bolts to be fitted with the coupling only in the correct position and obviously this safety feature would preclude miss-timing happening, BUT stranger things have happened.

I also agree that failed injection pump cam bearings, lifter rollers and or cam lobe face in the high load lift area will retard the timing making starting difficult.




Just came to mind that D8K's had a support ring shrunk onto the cam end to help stop the drive loads from fracturing one of the the slot edges and so cause retarded timing too.
With the shrink ring in place it can be difficult to spot if the slot edge is broken as it is held in place by a lip on the face of the ring.

Well worn drive tang and/or slot will retard timing. This is where Lifter setting on the engine takes out the wear factors.

Sorry hope, to not confuse things more---Just thinking aloud.

Am out again tomorrow so just throwing some ideas before it is too late and the pump is refitted and these things not checked.

Cheers,
Eddie B.


Hi Eddie,

Thank you for your post and it makes a lot of sense... I always approach trouble shooting from a system based approach... We know that there is an issue with the fuel system. I have ordered all the gaskets to refit the pump back on... However, I am not confident to reinstall it back on the tractor without someone tearing it apart and rebuilding it... I know some people on this forum will say I am nuts but why overlook this???? It makes zero sense to me... Now I am not saying that it will fix it but I dont want to chase my tail either... Now the major problem is finding someone that knows these old pumps like the back of their hands and knows how to rebuild it correctly... Any input on who to ship it to and sort it out properly would be most appreciated... Regarding timing it could be 180 out and causing this hard start... The dozer according to previous owner was always a hard start... A ton of glowing and a lot of heat needed.... Lets face facts this dozer lives and has aways lived in Hawaii... Average temperature is 75degrees. This D9G should start much easier then a d9 located in washington state where it can be 30 degrees.... Sorry for the rant but to me it is common sense....She needs to be straightened out... Please correct me if I am off base....

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