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Stuck In Hawaii D9G Still Wont start!!! Bad Injection Pump????

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1 year 11 months ago #207441 by gvanhouten

If you hit the decelerator pedal and hold it there you wind up in low idle mode. The loading piston would be in the up position and governor main spring would have minimum compression (rack near off). I don't know any way of checking the piston without taking it apart but I'd like to get tc's input before tearing into it.



Totally agree I am not trying to tear into anything... We will wait for TC... Again much thanks and appreciation

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1 year 11 months ago #207442 by Old Magnet

Totally agree I am not trying to tear into anything... We will wait for TC... Again much thanks and appreciation


Again that last post is assuming the decelerator is functioning and the piston is not stuck.
Keep checking back on my edits as more thoughts flow.

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1 year 11 months ago #207443 by oldbeek
This governor and fuel thing is getting crazy. Is it putting out fuel? Pick a line that can be attached to any pump and affix an injector nozzle to it. Have some one crank the engine while you hold a paper plate in front of the nozzle with the fuel control in NO FUEL position. Should be no fuel sprayed onto the plate. NOW, Do the same thing with fuel control in full fuel position. Should see a good spray pattern on the paper plate. Now if you get a good spray pattern, move the line to each pump and test them each. Good SPRAY PATTERN? If YES, check the adjustment on each pump for timing. When done with that, MOVE ON. Fuel and timing is not your problem!

Cat 12 grader, 8T6995 running and restoring, Cat 12 grader 9K3585. parts machine, Adams leaning wheel Pull grader Mod # 22, ser#438

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1 year 11 months ago #207444 by tctractors
I would not worry about the governor control at this point, as the throttle will not work correctly until engine oil is pumped in via the thin pipe, if you look at the rack control you will see a line that index's with the fuel pumps , as long as that line moves past the zero point to fuel on this is going to start the beast, you can pull it hard to fuel on by hand through the side plate to improve things if you think it's still lazy. tctractors p.s. the oil pressure should take care of moving the piston as I would not think it would be sticking or stopping start up, the engine will take 30 to 50 seconds of running before the throttle comes up against the decelerator under your foot, with tipex you can mark and measure your rack travel, it's just a rough way of doing it but it is simple enough.

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1 year 11 months ago #207446 by Old Magnet
I would be interested to know if the Decelerator control valve is actually working.
Attachments:

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1 year 11 months ago #207451 by edb
Replied by edb on topic De-accelerator
Hi gvanhouten,
could you please clarify if you are holding the De-accelerator pedal down whilst trying to start this engine.

As OM said if you are, then when oil pressure comes up--which appears to be when we see grey, then black smoke and the engine lightly firing whilst being spun over--it will be only be receiving enough fuel for running at my early (66A1061-up) Rack setting Chart's Setting of :- 700 +/- 50 rpm with the De-accelerator pedal held down.
Low idle Rpm is :- 475 +/-10 Rpm

Lifter setting is :- 2.0899 +- 0.002" on engine with engine set on TDC --OM may have later Specs for your S/No

Also, as said by myself and others before and after me above, the simplest way to check for fuel injection delivery is to attach a capsule (injector), adaptor, and a capsule to an injection line and crank the engine and see if the injection pump can open the capsule at around 600 Psi.

Yes, there are no seals at the capsule to adaptor joint which will leak a bit but still tells us what we need to know--the injection pump can make 600 Psi with rack on or not if the rack is closed.

I am sure if this was done when we asked for it we would have a better understanding of what might be going on or not.
This test is often done when injection delivery fuel is in doubt as an almost first test in the Troubleshooting process.

Hope this helps.
Cheers,
Eddie B.

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1 year 11 months ago #207465 by gvanhouten

Hi gvanhouten,
could you please clarify if you are holding the De-accelerator pedal down whilst trying to start this engine.

As OM said if you are, then when oil pressure comes up--which appears to be when we see grey, then black smoke and the engine lightly firing whilst being spun over--it will be only be receiving enough fuel for running at my early (66A1061-up) Rack setting Chart's Setting of :- 700 +/- 50 rpm with the De-accelerator pedal held down.
Low idle Rpm is :- 475 +/-10 Rpm

Lifter setting is :- 2.0899 +- 0.002" on engine with engine set on TDC --OM may have later Specs for your S/No

Also, as said by myself and others before and after me above, the simplest way to check for fuel injection delivery is to attach a capsule (injector), adaptor, and a capsule to an injection line and crank the engine and see if the injection pump can open the capsule at around 600 Psi.

Yes, there are no seals at the capsule to adaptor joint which will leak a bit but still tells us what we need to know--the injection pump can make 600 Psi with rack on or not if the rack is closed.

I am sure if this was done when we asked for it we would have a better understanding of what might be going on or not.
This test is often done when injection delivery fuel is in doubt as an almost first test in the Troubleshooting process.

Hope this helps.
Cheers,
Eddie B.


Hi Eddie and thank you.

In the video that was posted both times to Youtube I did not hold the decelerator down. I will take a look at the Injection pump while it is off the machine for the cam and general condition and put it back on and do the testing with the capsule. I think this is vital so we can sort that out first. I should have left it on but after talking with multiple people it seems like they do not feel but have not ruled out the injection pump.... I am returning to Hawaii on Wednesday and will be posting plenty of follow ups for everyone so we can figure out and fire the old girl back to life... Thanks you and stay tuned....

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1 year 11 months ago #207466 by gvanhouten

Hi gvanhouten,
could you please clarify if you are holding the De-accelerator pedal down whilst trying to start this engine.

As OM said if you are, then when oil pressure comes up--which appears to be when we see grey, then black smoke and the engine lightly firing whilst being spun over--it will be only be receiving enough fuel for running at my early (66A1061-up) Rack setting Chart's Setting of :- 700 +/- 50 rpm with the De-accelerator pedal held down.
Low idle Rpm is :- 475 +/-10 Rpm

Lifter setting is :- 2.0899 +- 0.002" on engine with engine set on TDC --OM may have later Specs for your S/No

Also, as said by myself and others before and after me above, the simplest way to check for fuel injection delivery is to attach a capsule (injector), adaptor, and a capsule to an injection line and crank the engine and see if the injection pump can open the capsule at around 600 Psi.

Yes, there are no seals at the capsule to adaptor joint which will leak a bit but still tells us what we need to know--the injection pump can make 600 Psi with rack on or not if the rack is closed.

I am sure if this was done when we asked for it we would have a better understanding of what might be going on or not.
This test is often done when injection delivery fuel is in doubt as an almost first test in the Troubleshooting process.

Hope this helps.
Cheers,
Eddie B.



You mentioned a capsule injection adapter. Any part number or reference to where I can buy this?

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1 year 11 months ago #207470 by Old Magnet
You don't need an adapter. Just screw the capsule to the body outside its mounting.
Attachments:

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1 year 11 months ago #207527 by Wombat
If upon testing injectors for a good spray and getting fuel then I have a nagging feeling from earlier comments that the previous owner said it was always a difficult starter after an engine overhaul, does this tractor have an injection timing issue, not knowing the extent of the overhaul etc, I am starting to think injection timing might be very retarded, way after TDC. Failing that a valve camshaft timing issue, though I tend to think not.

If the go gas is making it knock a lot I believe there is sufficient compression to heat the air to ignite it, thus my feeling is somehow the injection timing is all up the spout. Not being familiar with D9's I don't know where or how it could be made to be so far out.

Just a mad rambling thought. Wombat

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